What Banking’s AI Boom Keeps Getting Wrong

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of What's Going On Banking. I'm Ron Shevlin, chief research officer at Cornerstone and author of the Fintech Snark Tank, which I hope you all are reading. And with me, of course, is my co-host, Stacey Bryant. Stacey, you know what I'm going to say. How you doing?

How you doing? Ron, you know I'm great because we got our rings this week. Okay? And I'm talking about the Knicks in five, game one, ring day.

For those who've been under a rock, the New York City Knicks started the summer after 53 long years. We took the NBA championship, baby! And Jalen Brunson, amongst all the greats, received their ring. I'm not sure if you saw the ring, but it's a huge ring, and if you twist it off, it has Madison Square Garden all over it.

And so, once again, as a New Yorker, always a New Yorker. Shout out to the New York Knicks. I also texted you. Listen, this is how ride-or-die New Yorkers are, especially after 53 years, Ron. A newborn baby was named Knickson Five. And so, shout out to that baby.

You have to spell it out. It's K-N-I-C-K-S-O-N. You say Nixon, people are going to think, what? They named the kid after Richard Nixon? It's like, no.

Exactly. Great callout, Ron. So we'll go ahead and spell it out for those watching. But I read into it a little bit, where the parents, again, ride-or-die Knicks fans, the mother was seven months pregnant when the Knicks won. And so, of course, they made it Knickson Five. And so, shout out to all those celebrating. It is a beautiful week, and I am on a high.

And speaking about a high, another cherry on the cake here. I just got back from American Banker's Most Powerful Women in Banking conference. And shout out to Hollis and all the folks that coordinate and curate this amazing event.

I'll tell you, Ron, I'm a geek. I love what I do in banking. I'm so honored. I wake up and I pinch myself every single day. You know why? Because especially with this specific conference, where can we speak about sponsorship and championing and fostering relationships specifically for women in banking? Number one.

Where can we speak about who's doing what digitally, especially with agentic AI? And we'll talk about that later on in the episode. And where else can I get great skincare hacks? And so, all of those things we spoke about. Shout out to all the ladies.

And a special, special shout out to an amazing leader, Jill Castilla. She's the chairwoman, president and CEO of Citizens Bank of Edmond. And she was also recognized as one of the honorees for America's Most Powerful Women in Banking. She's done so much for the community, and I have a thing for community bank people. And so, again, shout out to them.

I met a few other folks. Vivian Young, she was up on stage. She's the chief digital and technology officer of Fremont Bank out of California. They're upwards of $6 billion in assets.

And it's funny, you would have probably kicked me, Ron. But she comes off the stage, and I pull her aside. I'm like, "Vivian, I must ask, what do you identify as when you're hiring, and what's the future of banking?"

And, of course, she kind of subtly rolled her eyes. She didn't. I'm just adding dramatics. But she mentioned, she said, "Listen, nowadays my team really does a lot of the recruiting. But when it comes down to me for the next interview, I'm asking about AI usage. I'm having them explain what their day-to-day looks like as an individual contributor versus with a team."

She's interested in how candidates are automating their own workflows with AI and how they're proving it by walking through it.

So, for those who always question or always ask, Stacey, Ron, what are the skills? What are people looking for? What does the future of banking look like? Let's add that to the plate.

But you've also been traveling. How you doing?

I'm doing great. And I just want to comment first on a couple things about the event you were at. I've known Jill for a long time, so that's great to see her get that kind of award.

You know who else I knew on that list? I don't know if you ran into Julie Thurlow from Reading Cooperative Bank. But you and I, Stacey, we work a lot with the community financial institution space. So it was really good, I think, looking at that list of who the most powerful women in banking are, that they're not all from the largest megabanks. You've got some really good representation from the community side. I think that's really super important.

One thing I'll tell you, maybe on the downside of all this, and it's a minor thing in the scheme of things, but man, the timing this year could not be worse.

You know how September and October are with conferences, and the fact that this overlapped with Money20/20 this year meant that a lot of those most powerful women in banking couldn't be at Money20/20. So both Jill and Julie were sorely missed there.

But I came back last night from my eighth Money20/20. I can't say it's consecutive because there was no Money20/20 in 2020, which was pretty coincidental, of course, but we know why. And I didn't go in 2021.

And honestly, I don't think I was too broken up about it. But '22, '24, '25, now '26, all back there.

I'm going to say something about the conference, Stacey, that I'm assuming my boss, at least, won't be listening to this. And I don't think anybody from Cornerstone, I mean, I think they're kind of tired of listening to the two of us all the time. So I don't really think we get a lot of folks listening from our own organization.

But I had a great time this year. And one of the reasons why, Stacey, is that I went this year with a very different mindset.

I said, "I am not going to get business. This is not a sales trip."

Every year, I come back with 20 leads. I start working them, but by December 10th, the world shuts down. Then when it opens back up on January 2nd, everybody's budgets and priorities have changed, and it's like all that work for nothing.

So this year, screw it. I went with the intent and purpose of just finding a lot of smart people to talk to and getting smarter for myself.

The first part of that was most definitely accomplished. Found a lot of people who were smart to get smart about. Did I get any smarter? Well, we'll see about that.

Because a lot of what I was talking about, and we're going to do this today as well, was AI-type issues.

And I tell you, Stacey, there's no shortage of new vendors in the tech space coming to market with AI solutions and platforms.

And I'm confused. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but you know what? If I'm confused about all this, I think a lot of bankers are getting confused and overwhelmed with new platforms this and agents that and data management that.

I posted something this morning on LinkedIn about this, and I got a note from the CEO of FINRE Lab, who does some really cool stuff. And I probably shouldn't say this because if she wasn't posting it online, maybe she didn't want me to mention this. But she was saying, on top of all of this are the cybersecurity issues and breaches, which are going through the roof.

So it just feels like a super confusing time. You talk to a lot of bankers. Do they seem like they know what they're doing or feel like they're in control?

It's wild that you say that. Two things. I'm going to address that in a minute, but first of all, I wanted to just note how gangster it was that you just dropped your itinerary on LinkedIn and said, "Guys, I'm going to have coffee from this day to this day, this time to this time. If you want me, just DM me."

Super gangster. I cannot wait to go to my next conference and put my gangster slide, I mean, my gangster post and my schedule there. Just want to let you know. I think I give you a lot of credit there.

So when I told my wife I posted my schedule on LinkedIn, the eyes rolled, and she's like, "You didn't do that."

I was like, "Hold on, let me explain."

So I posted on LinkedIn that from Sunday through Tuesday, my schedule was 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m., breakfast at Canyon Ranch; 8:00 a.m. to noon, 15-minute meetings at Illy's; 12:00 to 2:00, lunch at SushiSamba; 2:00 to 5:00, back for more coffee and 15-minute meetings at Illy's; 5:00 to 7:00, happy hour; 7:00 to 9:00, dinner; 9:00 to 12:00, party.

You put somebody's happy hour.

Somebody's happy hour, right.

And it was mission accomplished because here's the thing. After I posted that, I got a ton of requests. "Hey, Ron, can I get one of those 15-minute slots?"

And I got to pick and choose who I wanted to talk to. And yeah, I got somebody to buy me lunch every day. I got someone to buy me dinner every day. Not all. Sunday night was on me.

But yeah, it was mission accomplished of lining up the meetings.

Pretty, pretty GOAT move. I will definitely try that.

So one callout there, and the second one, to answer your question about AI. I'm at this table with a whole bunch of folks. I have First Citizens Bank. Who else was on there? There was a Japanese-based bank. Can't remember their name at the moment.

There was a whole bunch of folks that I was networking with in the past couple of days at the Most Powerful Women in Banking conference, and I'm always asking, "How are y'all using AI?"

United Nations Federal Credit Union, I met the folks that run their risk there. So there were a lot of risk people there, for what it's worth, and fraud detection was huge.

But then we think about, Ron, and I'm sorry, I'm purposely digressing here, but fraud detection, and we think about machine learning and all these things that have been around. Folks are still, even big megabanks, they're still trying to understand use cases.

And it's so funny because I hear from so many folks, especially in the community bank and credit union realm, they're on this chase for AI and AI and AI, where I'm also concerned about how much of a chase is really distracting you from day-to-day operations and innovation.

But that's what I hear. I just wanted to give you a taste of what I'm hearing.

But you're seeing a lot of AI-powered folks. I'm sure as you walked through the very long square footage of where Money20/20 was held, you probably saw that.

No, you're misinterpreting. I didn't walk around anywhere. Remember, I sat.

Everybody walked around at once.

I did get down to the exhibit hall a couple times, but that's what I was saying. For the most part, I was just going to hang out at Illy's.

But I posted about this recently on LinkedIn. I probably talked to six or seven companies who are coming to market with what they're calling AI platforms.

And from a banker perspective, Stacey, if you have not deployed and are familiar with AI platforms, you don't know what it is.

And I was kind of being a jerk, being antagonistic, looking at the stuff they're putting in front of me and feeling this is just so generic.

You're talking models, context, insights, agents, and I'm going, I don't know, maybe that resonates with the tech guys at JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America. I really don't think it resonates with anybody below $100 billion in assets, and I don't think it's what they're looking for.

I don't think they want AI agent orchestration layers right now. I think they want to improve business processes, reduce time. Yeah, cost is always something they want to reduce, but I think it's about speed.

How do we go from a three-week process down to a three-day or three-hour process, three-minute process? That's possible, but not by sticking some abstract thing called an AI platform or orchestration layer.

They don't want hundreds of agents. They want an agent that does this one thing really, really good, really, really fast. There's a huge disconnect out there.

And the direct message I got made me realize, too, I'm struggling to think through what the approach and solution is.

It's so complex around process redesign, getting your data in order, dealing with security and privacy and cyber risk issues. It's just all piling up on bankers.

So, Ron, I keep hearing cyber risk. And again, at American Banker's Most Powerful Women in Banking, those were the roles that I was hearing and seeing a lot and having conversations with.

There was a conversation on stage called "Regulation as Competitive Architecture: Who Shapes the Rules Shapes the Market."

And you had the chief risk officer of U.S. Bank there. You had the chief compliance officer for Banking and International at Citi. You had a chief enterprise risk officer over at Capital One.

And Cara West, who's the chief enterprise risk officer, noted a few things when we think about this AI boom and who's doing what.

Cara stated that regulation and risk governance can really shape which financial institutions are able to adopt AI safely and compete effectively.

That is the major theme that I'm hearing again. And we've spoken about this so many times on the podcast here, but strong data hygiene and governance provide the foundation for reliable AI.

And so, a couple of notes that I was just jotting down as she was speaking there. Moving from small samples toward broader coverage can improve oversight while also surfacing more issues that need attention.

She went on to say cybersecurity controls and expert human review, again, that human in the loop, help keep that expanded use safe and trustworthy.

And she mentioned overall that the competitive advantage is not simply using AI first. It's building the governance, the data quality, data strategy. Let's go, data, data, data. Bringing the data to the models, not the models to the data, where it really helps in boosting the bank's use of AI with confidence and responding credibly to regulators.

And so, there are also a mix of credit unions and smaller community banks where they're not trying to be fast adopters. They keep mentioning regulators.

And we haven't even touched on tokenization and blockchain, but this is the time where we as financial institutions, and we always say it, let's identify what really moves the needle.

Favorite term, you know, what are the niches that we're serving, and how do we grow from there?

And let's make sure that we have everything set in place so that when regulators come in, we have all the means to explain and the processes.

So I just wanted to touch on that because, again, that's really where I'm seeing that major push, more on the cyber front, on the governance front, and what that means for regulators.

Stacey, I gotta be honest. That just all makes me kind of squirm with discomfort. And I'll tell you why.

AI risk governance. There's three components right there. AI, risk and governance. And I'm like, what does that mean?

I'm running a lending shop. I've got to get faster. You want to stop me with talking about AI risk governance? Out of my face. I've got a business to run. I've got things to do. And you want to stick this in.

And by the way, there's also AI technology deployment governance, and there's governance for data governance, and there's AI usage policies.

We are overloading financial institutions with concepts and ideas. Everybody's feeling the elephant with a blindfold on and going, "Oh, this is risk right here. So I need AI risk governance."

And it's overwhelming. There's only so much change people in an organization can handle in a period of time, and we're forcing this down organizations' throats and making it unbearable and untenable.

I disagree. I disagree.

I'll say this. We think about the future of banking, and you know the Ron Shevlin chief fill-in-the-blank officer? There will be more chief fill-in-the-blank officers, more chief data officers.

Whether all these committees that you mentioned report to chief risk in the org chart or a chief data officer, this is the future of banking.

We need to be able to show the work as financial institutions, as far as, like, this is where we're integrating AI. This is the vendor that we're using. This is whatever due diligence, SOC reporting, whatever it is. These are the first beta folks that we've used it on. These are the guardrails that we've used. This is also what went wrong, like the patches of sorts. This is how we fixed it.

So we're thinking about a very long timeline where we're showing, we're adding data to justify that. That's the governance part, isn't it?

And so, I guess what I'm really arguing is, yes, it's cumbersome, but the plumbing of banking is changing.

And so these conversations and all the different types of governance have to be had. It has to be part of future strategic planning so that we can understand how we can fill these blanks, how we can fill these roles, how we can make sure that we are having safe guardrails and are in compliance.

So I think the problem is on my end. I'm not articulating this appropriately and clearly enough.

The industry has dealt with risk issues for years, decades, and we've had technology change for decades.

Creating AI risk governance, AI policy, this, that, it's a level of complexity and organizational morass and malaise that sits on top.

It isn't about AI. It is simply business.

We didn't have the chief personal computer officer 40 years ago. We didn't have the chief client-server development officer 40 years ago.

It was just, hey, there's new technology. We incorporate it. We get it in. We improve the business. We always deal with risk. We always deal with compliance. We always deal with process improvement.

But we didn't carve out little niches of this and put an AI in front of it or a PC in front of it. Or, oh gee, now we need a cloud computing officer, right?

Because that's what I'm trying to get at. We always deal with a function.

The fact that there's new technology does not mean we create a new role, department, set of policies and procedures specific to that technology.

We never needed a chief COBOL officer. Didn't need a chief Fortran officer. I'm really showing my age.

But you see, I'm like, what? What's COBOL? What's Fortran?

Okay, so that's what I'm kind of railing against here. I get that there's change. This does not mean we create new roles specific to the technology when it's already part of the function and what that function could and should be doing.

Well, I guess we can say, to create a role or to replace a role, that is the question.

All right, all right. Enough arguing.

You want to move on to another topic? I know you want to talk about, what was it?

Let's do it. The agentic bank run. What teed that up? Who was it? The FDIC chair, Travis Hill.

He identified customer-authorized agents moving deposits as an issue. The agency is considering the earlier reporting.

Two things. There's earlier reporting also describing large banks. Chase is one of them, obviously, where they're restricting outside agents' account access over safety and liability concerns.

And here's my thing. I think friction can look a lot like loyalty until someone removes it.

And you spoke about this a little bit on your LinkedIn post with the financial health opportunity. That's a whole other conversation.

But to financial institutions, your customer or member, they aren't loyal. Your customer is tired.

And hear me out here. I was really kind of having a one-on-one meeting with myself as I was dissecting this FDIC article here.

And again, the question at hand that I have here is, all right, you make a bank strategy retreat get very quiet. So do your customers love you, is the question, or do they just not feel like changing the direct deposit?

Because I believe that's two very different business models. One is a relationship. The other one is an unfinished Saturday project.

Think about it. We talk about deposits. We say sticky, and that's a beautiful, reassuring word, Ron. Put sticky deposits in a board presentation and everyone relaxes.

But no one's asking, what about the glue?

Is it trust? Is it great service? Is it a banker who's actually picking up the phone?

Or is it that customer that has, and I'm that customer, I'm using myself as an obvious bias here, who has 17 automatic payments, a paycheck coming in on Friday, and absolutely no desire to spend lunch figuring out where the electric bill goes?

So it's not necessarily loyalty. I think I'm looking at this more like administrative exhaustion.

Now, let's bring the AI agent in here.

Not a chatbot that says, "Hey, I'm sorry you're having trouble," while somehow making the trouble longer.

I mean an agent that the customer, in my case, has authorized to evaluate accounts and help move the money.

And so the customer says, "Listen, I want to keep enough cash available for my bills, find a better return on the rest, and don't create a headache."

And suddenly the bank, in this case, has two very different conversations.

Because the customer, in my case, might forget to compare rates, but the software won't get distracted by group texts, which I usually get distracted by because I have a life.

And so the agent has an assignment.

So now I think about what exactly am I buying here?

Now, the easy version of the story is the highest rate always wins. But that's too simple because people aren't just buying a place to store dollars.

They're buying confidence that Friday payroll clears. They're buying access to credit. They're buying the ability to call someone when a transaction goes sideways.

So imagine telling the agent, "Maximize my interest." You might get one answer.

Tell it, "Maximize my interest, keep my money accessible, account for fees, preserve the services I use, and don't jeopardize my business relationship because I've been with this credit union for a long time."

Now you've given the AI agent a much harder job and a much more accurate description of banking.

So the question isn't whether relationships suddenly stop mattering. The question is whether the relationship delivers something worth staying for after you remove the hassle of leaving.

And so picture again, let's go back to that board meeting scene. Someone is saying, "Our customers have been with us for 24 years."

Wonderful. But have they stayed because you kept earning their business or because every time they thought about leaving, they remembered they'd have to update their water company?

So the water company shouldn't have to be the head of customer retention.

And to be fair, there's a real safety issue here. So if software gets permission to move money, somebody has to establish what it's allowed to do, how that permission gets verified, and what happens when they make a mistake. Governance part.

So "the robot misunderstood me" is not a satisfying explanation when the mortgage payment is missing.

But the bank also has to be honest with themselves. Are we putting up a guardrail because the customer could get hurt, or are we putting up a fence because the customer could get out?

And I think that's where I really kind of went into, Ron, the relationship after the obstacle course.

So overall, the optimistic version of my take of this story isn't that AI destroys relationship banking. It's that AI forces us as financial institutions to find out what the relationship is actually worth.

So if your banker solves problems, understands your business, and shows up when things get complicated, yeah, that's value.

But if your best retention strategy is that leaving requires three forms and a password reset and a call, then your competition isn't just the bank across the street. It's a customer finally getting around to it. And AI might be what getting around to it looks like.

And so I would really question all of our listeners, thanks for letting me go on a tangent there, but if a customer or member could easily leave tomorrow, what would make them choose us again?

And so I know you spoke about that a little bit more in depth for the financial health opportunity. Talk to me.

Well, we can't even get into that just yet. I can't even begin to count the number of issues and problems I have with your comments here. And nothing personal, of course, because you know I don't care.

Go ahead.

Okay. Number one, Stacey, we've done the research. Since 2020, more than $3 trillion has already left.

Do not give me the "Oh, customers are lazy, blah, blah, blah" stuff.

They've been moving money left and right for years.

It was 10 years ago, more even, that I said, "Hey, checking accounts are becoming paycheck motels, temporary places for people's money to stay."

The question isn't, are people lazy and are agents going to do this? People are already moving money.

Bankrate's been around for, what, 25 years? We've been able to see which banks and providers have the highest interest rates, and have we moved our money there willy-nilly?

No, we don't, because we don't often know who they are.

But there's another big, big piece to this, Stacey, that I think people are ignoring.

I forget the name of this thing in economics, but there's a theory in economics that people will optimize their behavior for their objectives.

But there's something that explains, in order for you to actually make a move, there's this bar it has to clear.

So let me try to put this into numbers.

You might be earning 0.4% on your $100 in the bank. And hey, here's an opportunity to move that from 0.4% to 4.0%.

On $100, what are we talking about? $4.

It's not about "I'm too lazy to move." It's not about "It's too hard to open the account."

That stuff is the easiest thing in the world right now. You can open up a new account in Chime. We've been on this call 30 minutes now. You could have opened up 10 Chime accounts in the time we've been blabbering on.

Okay? And don't give me it's lazy. Don't give me it's hard to do.

It isn't enough of an incentive to move.

Now, this whole thing about agentic bank runs isn't going to happen because you have to establish criteria for making the move.

And it isn't simply just a higher interest rate or a lower fee. It's "I want better service. I want better access."

How does the agent evaluate that?

And by the way, Jamie Dimon goes out there and says, "We're not going to let agents in."

That's just the first step. He's brilliant.

Everybody thinks, well, he's wrong. You can't do that. He's just negotiating because the next step is there are going to be payment terms in the small print that say you move this money or you move a certain amount X times a month, and you have triggered fees.

And then how does the agent compare this?

The smart banks are going to obfuscate the whole apples-to-apples comparison.

And people, yes, they want better performance, Stacey. But that does not mean they want to turn over the management of their financial life to some software tool that's been created by Facebook or Google or Microsoft or anybody else who might not have their best interests in mind.

And you know, listen, this theory is not new.

Twenty-ish, 25 years ago already, we had Mint that came out there, and Mint was going to aggregate all our information and figure out where the best places for it to go.

And all we ever saw were ads for Schwab because they were the only ones who paid for ads on Mint.

So you know what OpenAI and Anthropic and Google are all going to do? They're going to suggest you open up accounts with the firms that pay them the most amount of money.

Okay?

It's not about how do we react to the agentic bank run that's going to move money.

Financial institutions have to figure out how they offer the same agentic capabilities and deal with the fact that, gosh, sometimes there are just going to be decisions that you have to tell your member or your customer, "Somebody else does it better for you on this one."

And count on the fact that being honest, being truthful, and truly being helpful means I'm going to come back for more advice.

And maybe I would actually pay $5 a month for the tool instead of $5 a month for this dumb account that you call a checking account.

Stacey, this is what I've been ranting on about for the past couple months with the presentations I've been doing, is that the checking account becomes an AI agent.

The agent is the product that the customer buys, the consumer buys.

And that's whether we're talking at the retail level and most certainly at a small business and commercial level, where it's more complicated because there are workflows around money movement.

So I don't buy any of this agentic stuff. I do not buy this customers-are-lazy nonsense. I don't believe any of that stuff.

This is about value added in helping consumers manage their money.

Optimization sounds great, but it's almost unachievable.

God, I love when the snark comes out.

You know, I just love when I piss you off in an argument.

But you know what? That was an intentional reaction.

And by the way, I ran into more than one person at Money20/20 who said, "Man, I love it when Stacey tells you you're wrong."

Well, in this case, I was wrong because I really wanted you to get to that.

Again, going back to the LinkedIn post, and we'll share it as well with this podcast, but you touched on financial literacy.

And it made me think about what you just said a few minutes ago, plus the combination of how are we really providing value, and how are we showing customers and members this value? That we know what we're doing, and how we're saving them money, and how we're helping them with specific lending rates.

It makes me think, like, we think about GIFs. I think I can have a conversation with someone via text just off of GIFs.

And it makes me think about the Janet Jackson GIF, like, "What have you done for me lately?"

And so I think that's what it is now, whether it's agentic. What have you done for me lately?

That sounds like that is the retention KPI.

So we've got to figure out how to insert that in board sessions.

But listen, you won. I agree. That's it.

It's not winning and losing. This is about getting to truth. This is about talking this out and getting to a point where we can understand it better.

It's funny. I was at one meeting at Money20/20 this week when, I told you, a firm puts this thing in front of me, and I'm just like, no, this is all wrong.

And I'm realizing in my head, okay, these guys must think I'm the biggest arrogant jerk in the world.

But to me, it's about, I've got to push back on you. You can push back. And not just you and me, but it was like, guys, this is how you get to the point where we get to a different point in understanding.

Yeah.

Hey, so can I tell you one cool thing that happened at Money20/20 this week?

Yeah.

So I had scheduled to do a video with our friend Mary Wisniewski, and her company had a really nice suite up on the 36th floor of the Venetian Towers.

And as I'm going towards their suite, her suite, not her suite, I don't think she was staying there, but that would have been really nice. Mary, if you were staying at that suite, man, I'm getting a job at Atomic before next Money20/20.

But anyway, as I'm walking down the hall towards the suite, the guy who was in the suite next to Mary's came out of his suite, walked down the hall, we kind of nodded, said hi to each other, and I'm like, I know that guy.

Who was it? Elvis?

Oh my gosh, no. The bass player, Verdine White, from Earth, Wind & Fire.

And listen, I know I'm showing my age when I tell you, but they played there at the Venetian. And they're still rocking it.

Oh yeah. They have a residency. And you didn't get a selfie and put it on LinkedIn?

You know what? It's one of those, the guy's walking by, you're going, I know that guy looks familiar. I know him.

And now I've got to look it up and go, of course, Verdine White from Earth, Wind & Fire.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, that is Ron Shevlin's... You know, it must be nice to be at Money20/20 in Vegas being Ron Shevlin. That's all I have to say.

Well, listen, just last point. You had your Most Powerful Women dinner. I have to give a really big thanks to Colton, Paul, Johnny from Squire. They invited me to their CEO dinner.

Of course, I found out that the reason was because the restaurant was a little short-staffed on their waitstaff that night, so I had to be there to kind of help pour the water and stuff like that.

But yeah, it was good kind of hobnobbing and mingling in there.

Listen, America's top fintech leader and water boy, ladies and gentlemen.

All right, that does it for this one. We will pick up with the financial health opportunity and a couple other good topics in a week or so.

Thanks, everybody, for listening in. Stacey, as always, love you, man.

Love you, too.

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