Transcript
Well, hello. It’s me, Mary, editor-at-large at Cornerstone Advisors and host of Money Isn’t Everything, a show that explores anything other than just holding money because that’s a commodity thing.
Before we dive into today’s episode, I wanted to quickly note that this is actually my final episode hosting Money Isn’t Everything.
It is definitely bittersweet, but I’ll reflect a bit more on that at the end.
For now, I’m just super excited to get into today’s conversation.
Today on the show is Jay Millard, who is the chief revenue officer at Ualett.
That’s a fintech company offering cash advance solutions to gig economy workers, including rideshare and delivery drivers, as well as small business owners.
To put a number on it, they have more than 600,000 users.
We talk about the price of gas and ripple effects on Uber drivers and others who make a living using their car.
This kind of audience is less paycheck to paycheck as it is day to day, according to Jay.
We also talk about cash flow underwriting and Ualett’s new rewards program.
Here’s our conversation.
Jay, welcome to Money Isn’t Everything.
It’s great to see you again.
Great to see you.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
We saw each other last, and for the first time, at Fintech Meetup.
I know since then you have been to California for a conference that I think is really important because your audience is gig workers.
That’s who you’re serving.
And the price of gas right now is wild.
In California in particular, it’s over $6.
It’s of course affecting people’s cash flow.
For gig workers, that’s already sort of a dicey game.
And I imagine it’s getting dicier.
But Jay, what are you hearing from your end?
Are Uber drivers needing more cash advances?
Are they getting off the road?
What are you hearing anecdotally?
Yeah.
We found out from a couple different levels.
We hear it every day on the phone calls that we talk to, and we see it in the behavior from the requests for advances.
But I think when you dig in, and we had an opportunity not only at the conference, but we followed up with a focus group with some folks in town in California, they’re really feeling the pinch.
I think it really just completely constrains how much they have in their available income.
But the most obvious thing, which when you think about it is obvious, but it’s such a human aspect of what we’re seeing, is that people are just working more hours in the day.
So we were talking to a lot of folks in our focus group, and they were increasing the hours just to pay their bills.
That was as many as at least six days a week, up to 11 hours a day.
You start talking about, they still have the same obligations in their lives, but in order in the gig world to make that money they need, they’re increasing the number of hours they’re working.
And I have to imagine they’re feeling more stressed.
That’s probably less sleep, more stress from the unknown.
Did you explore the emotional state, the ripple effects here?
Yeah.
I think that’s interesting because when you sit down and talk to people, I think you feel the uncertainty.
There are a lot of things that drive uncertainty.
The conference talked a lot about automation and all the things that are going on.
The gig world is here to stay, but this group, I’ll give them credit.
I think one of the things we’ve always seen is the resiliency and the evolution and the adaptability.
But I think they’re constantly thinking about, where can I go to earn the greatest amount of money?
One of the things they’ll talk about is that while they tend to drive or work for one platform more frequently than you think, Gridwise points out that about 25% do what’s called multi-apping, which is sort of like you’re on multiple platforms.
Most of them, I think, will hit more than one platform in the course of the year, but often will be working a single platform right now that’s paying the most.
What you’re seeing is sort of this seeking out of, where else can I find those opportunities?
There’s a little bit of stress of, where is that?
Where can I find that money to cover their basic needs?
And the amount of those basic needs is growing.
There’s a lot of anxiousness around that uncertainty that’s in their minds right now.
I think you hit on a point that I know a lot of banks and credit unions care about.
For the longest time, the industry was talking about, and they still are, just in an AI lens, personal financial management and the tools that they offer.
If you follow this budgeting tool’s suggestions, you’ll be okay.
But what you’re saying, basically, is this is an income challenge.
I personally think it’s long been an area of opportunity for the industry to potentially help people find sources of income.
I think I’ve even seen it in an app that was called Steady, which I believe maybe sunsetted, but it was supposed to even out cash flow and perhaps link people to other sources of income.
Especially for gig workers, that matters.
But I’m just kind of curious, have you seen examples of this, of income optimization?
How are your customers finding out what pays the most in any given moment?
Yeah.
It’s interesting.
They’re very tuned in, but they use a multitude of apps and they’re constantly investigating.
There’s a lot of word of mouth and referral.
This group is a very interesting group that shares best practices, ideas, apps.
But they live in a fragmented universe when it comes to the resources there.
I think that’s one of the things where Ualett thinks about, what role can we play?
I think we think about, how do you help use technology to create a center point for all these challenges you’re facing where no one’s really focusing in a meaningful way to cover kind of that center of your financial life for a gig worker?
It’s a complicated group to understand.
And so I think we looked back and realized that trust is the underlying piece of the puzzle before you can do anything else.
We have so much trust built with our clientele that we start with that problem space they live in and build out from it.
I think right now what we’re trying to figure out is, how do we help you grow in your financial life?
And we realize the more we listen to the customer, what they’re telling us is, give me an easier way to manage and grow in my financial journey in one place.
Bring me the resources I need.
I think where a lot of people in fintech are trying to bring cool solutions to and find an audience for that, we’ve got a wonderful group of people that we’re building out from for that cool solution.
And while there’s overlap in the cool fintech needs, we’re tailoring every step of the way where there are gaps and breaks in the banking system, and there are gaps and breaks in the fintech world, and there are gaps and breaks in the resources available.
When you start inside what’s causing that, what’s breaking down and what isn’t serving it, you really start with, what is the nature of gig work and who is the gig worker?
Then from there you can start closing those gaps because it’s, I’ll call it, we’re an app that’s built first from the problem space of the gig worker out, not from the other way in.
And I think that’s going to be the key because this group has been surprisingly large.
You think about it, there’s over a third of the U.S. economy, by some accounts, where their primary source of income is involved in gig work.
And even a higher percent, closer to 50 by some accounts, have done some form of gig work in the last 12 months.
So when you think about it, it’s a crazy statement to think the amount of people that are impacted and how disconnected they are from the solutions they need to really manage their finances.
Yeah.
It’s definitely not a fringe thing.
This is becoming the generalist, right?
Or, you know, I have a bias here in LA.
But I did notice when I was looking up your app, I think I was in the Apple Store when I saw this, but wow, really good reviews.
I think the last number I saw was like a 4.9 rating overall, which feels really high, to your point of building the product for solving their problems.
Yeah, for sure.
I think when I think about our founders, it was originally built kind of with a boots-on-the-ground, talking-to-the-people-about-what-they-need approach.
Our founders really understood this group that they felt was left behind.
Our CEO is from the Dominican Republic.
And one of the characteristics that’s often found is that there’s a diverse group of people that aren’t served in their own language.
We’re a bilingual platform.
So many folks in the gig economy, a significant percentage, include Spanish speakers among others.
By providing the app in both languages, providing support, that’s one dimension of what I would consider the financial inclusion element of kind of who we are.
And then I think, you know, if I get into, this is my bias of course, but if I think about where folks are often left behind, it’s like, if you were to ask a lot of folks, and I hear this consistently, people don’t understand who I am.
What are some traditional systems that are evidence of where that comes from?
A legacy system like FICO scoring, or things that are, you know, we think about how we use cash flow and better understand the dynamics of the ups and downs of the gig worker.
But again, that started with person-to-person conversation.
So we built a solution that was service first.
It was people first.
It was problem first.
And then as you scaled, you realized you had found something that was a much bigger need than even you might have originally realized.
So layering in technology to make that better.
You built service at the core, and then you just figured out how to use technology to scale that.
But you didn’t ever lose that piece of it.
And so one of the reasons why every time I go somewhere like the conference in Los Angeles, I take the opportunity with my team to sit down with the clients, is that real-time feedback is something that, first of all, whatever I think I know about this space is changing so fast that it’s just amazing.
I have to stay tuned in with this very dynamic space, but this very adaptable group.
But even when we don’t always get it right immediately, there’s such an appreciation for the extent to which we go to just deeply understand their pain points that I think goes a long way.
And it creates a challenge for me because what they’re asking me is, they’re saying, well, you haven’t solved this part yet, but can you dig into this for us?
And I think I respect the fact that before they go seek it out, they’re asking us, can you help me?
And what I hear is, can you help me grow on my financial journey?
And while that feels wonderful, it also feels like a tremendous burden and responsibility to take serious action on because this group is so deeply in need of meaningful solutions.
That’s what drives us.
That’s what drives our passion here with this.
That is remarkable.
And I’m curious, just from what you said, what’s been the biggest surprise that you’ve discovered about a gig worker that maybe you thought A and then it was B?
Yeah.
You know, maybe there’s sort of this identity around an individual platform.
Or maybe there was a sense, like we had a big shift in our, if you can picture pre-COVID, everybody was doing rideshare.
And then the immediate adaptability to, well, you would have expected some adaptability.
Our business just saw all that shift to delivery.
And so when I think about the nature of a gig worker, it’s like they’re entrepreneurial.
You know, maybe some of the uniqueness of, if you’ve ever been in the back of an Uber and somebody’s also got their own other business they’re working.
There’s just this entrepreneurialism and sort of this batch of problem solvers that you’ve never seen.
And so, it’s like, I think there’s an intuition there and I think you have a sense of that, but as you get deeper in you just realize how deep this is.
Maybe not just an exception.
This is sort of the reframing of work.
This is how a lot of people are working today.
But it comes with all the benefits that it brings.
It comes with the challenges of making ends meet and access to healthcare and things that become a bigger challenge.
So I think there’s just sort of that element of really seeing the human flavor of what is going on with that entrepreneurialism and how they’re adapting to the challenges of their own economic needs, but also how truly a feature of their lives this has become for such a significant percentage of the U.S. that maybe is more than people realize.
And Jay, it’s definitely an area of human, I was going to say, which is a really odd way to put it.
But I think it’s a mystifying area for financial institutions.
Over the years, sometimes I see an experiment or I hear, this is for gig workers.
And I don’t think anything has succeeded really that well when it’s at least marketed as that from a financial institution.
And I’m curious from your standpoint, you mentioned different gaps and how they’re not served.
Certainly, I imagine underwriting is a big area of that.
But what’s missing from the banking side of things?
Yeah.
I think definitely the legacy systems for approving folks, they’re underbanked for sure.
And so I think when you access, call it the American dream if you want, just call it the human dream.
At the end of the day, you have a bank account, but how do you grow in your financial life?
How do you get access to the tools?
And it’s interesting.
I mean, with all respect to the banks and other places, there’s this element of trying to figure out, everybody’s got the solution two steps up, but how do you get from those first two really difficult steps?
And so this point of pain, if you’re in a liquidity crisis and you’re a gig worker who has inconsistent incomes, you think about where Ualett was formed.
It was based on the idea that we understand some of those patterns.
So FICO, for example, punishes you for that.
You’re almost invisible to the banking system in that sense.
So to the extent that, but really ultimately a huge percentage of folks are running, paycheck to paycheck doesn’t begin to describe it when you’re in this kind of a space.
But for a gig worker, it’s more like day to day.
I think over 70% expect their money on a daily basis.
They need to have access to it.
So there’s this need that the system wasn’t built for that in its current version.
And so I think a lot of great systems are designed for when you graduate into the next level.
But there’s sort of this blind spot that exists from the banking system and the traditional financial institutions that are, hey, we understand there are a lot of those folks, but we can’t really see what’s going on down there.
So these patterns of their remittance behavior that come from just paying your rent on time, paying your bills and your cash flow, you’re not getting a lot of credit for that that enables you to graduate to the next level of quality products.
So you kind of get cut off from growing into the next set of solutions.
I see us as filling a liquidity gap.
There’s an element of, you’re stuck today as a micro business or an entrepreneur or somebody who’s a freelancer, and your business is stalled.
This is the little bit of capital I need just to keep my car running, to keep my business moving, and I don’t have a solution for that.
But if I can get out of that, how do I, now I’ve done a lot of really good things well in the cash flow world, how do I get the next option to have access to the next growth opportunity for larger loans or different things in my life?
And I see that as an opportunity for Ualett to bring more value into the growth on your financial journey because I see still continuation of that.
There’s not a lot helping you if you want to grow in your financial life there because you’re kind of a big blind spot to the banking system.
Yeah.
Well, this is a huge question, but what do you think would help make someone less blind to the financial system?
Well, you have to meet me where I am because if I’m at this beginning point, individually, they make up a small amount of what might be seen as volatility in the way that somebody looks at you.
It’s just a difficult thing to embrace, but we have to really embrace who a gig worker is and what they’re doing.
So if you think about who am I, and I’m someone who has maybe my ranges in any given week could go from $500 to $2,000 in a week.
These fluctuations are just sort of a pattern of behavior in the nature of my gig work.
It’s a deeper sort of conversation, to your point, about thinking about risk and thinking about who’s kind of making a bet on you.
But as a whole, this is a foundational piece in our economy.
And I think as a whole, these are human beings that are working really hard.
These are some of the hardest-working people you will ever meet.
But there’s inconsistency in the income pattern.
So how do you understand that?
The systems for evaluating your worthiness, your creditworthiness, just don’t meet that.
And so the cash flow underwriting component of it seems like a huge piece of sort of the beginning.
That’s like a table stake.
But as you get in there, one of the daily things you’re doing to perform well, one of these things Ualett’s building and we’re launching full scale here in the next week, is a reward system that rewards you for the value of your daily behaviors and gives you a place to use those rewards and demonstrate that you’ve distinguished yourself in really what you do every day.
You can’t show this to the banks.
So there’s a way for you to earn benefits and do those kinds of things for just the daily activities.
And I feel like the credit system shows you all that benefit, but sort of oddly in this customer who’s very cash-flow-driven, the system of rewards, the system of evaluation, the system that propels you into progressing into the next product, has a different evaluation criteria.
So you kind of just get capped off right there, and you don’t have a lot of product solutions to kind of grow up.
I think this meeting that next sort of step is a stepping stone.
But there aren’t a lot of folks out there doing that.
I think that’s where we come in and say to ourselves, all right, how do we help bring this group into the next tier of solutions so that now all of a sudden the more traditional view of what’s going on is clearer?
And some of that involves for us making more direct partnerships with banks who are more forward-thinking, more not only fintech-forward, but are more designed for thinking about the nature of work that is happening in the gig economy that is just different than the nature of work that a lot of the traditional systems were designed around.
Yeah.
I always thought that had to have been a huge disconnect.
At a bank, anyone working there is not going to be out of quote-unquote ordinary hours from eight to five or whatever, and then have paychecks every other week or once a month or whatever the case may be.
It’s a different thing.
And Jay, you mentioned rewards.
So I want to know, what’s an example of the rewards program you are doing?
What earns rewards?
Well, we actually call them gig points with the folks.
One of the things, say for example, when we’re providing an advance, which is an advance against future receivables.
So we anticipate, based on your history of your cash earnings and your gig work that’s been up and down, give you access to some capital, and you set up a weekly pattern for remitting back to us.
And just simply doing that, doing that consistently, we can give you access to some points for that.
But simple things.
We have a loyalty.
You talked about the 4.9 rating.
A lot of our folks, without us even asking, are telling a lot of their friends about us in the space.
So we’re giving them different points for that.
But I think one of the things that we have is we have folks that complete entire advances over and over again and never miss a remittance.
And I think that it’s odd.
You’re completely left out of even being part of the equation in the evaluation criteria of, like I said, creditworthiness and other programs.
Here, that is the reward itself for doing the routine things that are part of the fulfillment of that obligation.
We’re acknowledging that and tracking that and rewarding and incentivizing that, just things you’re already doing.
So I guess that’s sort of the essence here, that in a way it’s reinforcing the positive behaviors we’re already seeing.
As it relates to that, we’ve added some fun other things.
We’ve partnered with some companies where, if folks are in a downtime, we’ve actually connected to a way where folks can play games, and through those games advertisers will incent folks and give them financial rewards.
And we’ll even let them cash them out for a gift card or other things that they can use to buy gas or do things that can help.
So it’s sort of even a way to deal with these little downtime periods while you’re waiting for the next ride or whatever.
It’s like, let’s give you some ways creatively to just sort of continue to build some of that little bit of extra money on the side, but through the rewards of what you’re already effectively doing and just making it a little more fun along the way.
Yeah.
No, I think that’s great.
The concept of rewarding for good behavior.
There’s a fintech startup called Debbie that I really like that rewards people for paying down their debt, for example.
And it’s seemingly simple, but wow, does that change the whole dynamic of how a normal lending experience goes.
Well, I’m really excited about that.
And you had mentioned that you’re bilingual, Spanish.
Ualett understands.
I think that’s so important.
And I do think that’s an area where I’m surprised that more of fintech or financial services aren’t multilanguage by now.
But I’m kind of curious, do you hear anecdotally when you’re at a conference, do you tune in to why or why not an app is offering experiences in different languages?
Do you have an opinion on whether GenAI will help broaden the ways an app might be interacting with its customers language-wise?
I think people take for granted the translation.
One of the things that I think, it’s an oversight, and it’s a pretty big one.
But the why is fascinating sometimes.
We partner, for example, with a company that helps provide discounts on insurance.
And so we find that we often will collaborate, and some of the partners that we work with the best are the ones that will lean into the language needs we have more directly.
Because I think we’ve helped them understand.
And they’ve, in this particular example, been great partners to work with us to sort of dig through some of the technical challenges.
Because I think if you assume, for example, that the app will detect the language that you set your phone at, that it’ll auto-translate things and it’ll make it work, the percentage of the time I found that didn’t work correctly on a lot of apps is way outside of a normal tolerance.
In addition to that, financial jargon, if you want to use the word, is just not helping users understand the solutions.
And they feel a little bit, it creates a little bit of disconnect there.
So we do a lot to very specifically ensure the quality of the translation through working through the nuances of the particular fintech solution.
And so every time we partner, if we’re working in an ecosystem with, say, a third-party partner, one of the requirements we have is that it’s got to be as seamless as possible in how we handle the language transition.
And I will say it’s very frequent that either that conversation catches people off guard or they assume it’ll work just fine and it doesn’t.
But I guess because of that point of pain, we have to lean into that, not run away from it.
Because if we stop there, we probably wouldn’t be able to provide access and fulfill more of that vision of providing a way for you to grow in your financial lives.
You’d be cut off.
So instead what we tend to do is lean in with those partners and figure out how can we, through the APIs and use technology, bring a more connected environment to our clients?
And again, I go back to the building from the problem out.
I think that it’s one of the places where we feel the trust, sort of the support from our clients related to that.
But the why is fascinating.
I can only assume based on what I’ve seen that there’s an assumption that tech handles it better than it does.
And so there’s sort of an oversight in the depth in which it’s handled.
But I can tell you there’s a tremendous dissatisfaction from the folks we come across in our client base from the resources they have available in their own language.
One of the things we work really hard on on our side is to make that happen.
And I do expect technology to continue to enhance that experience, but it’s still an area that is a pretty big gap.
And so it’s one we fill pretty well.
But as we continue to grow and how we’re going to provide more services, even if we’re going to leverage a third party, we still have to work pretty closely with them to help them fill that gap because otherwise there’s going to be still a disconnect when we connect through APIs to other partners.
Oh yeah.
That’s so true.
And translation is such an art.
You feel it in a novel.
It’s very different sometimes depending on who the translator is.
So, plus one to what the industry needs to do more of.
And Jay, we have one segment on the show called “That’s What You Said.”
And you said this in announcing, it might have been announcing a partnership with Dwolla earlier, but you also worked at Dwolla, so I want to get into that.
But for “That’s What You Said,” you said, “If we are doing our job right, we’re like an umpire in a game where you don’t know that it is happening.”
Do you still feel that way?
I think in that context I do.
I think in that context that was related to Dwolla.
I think that is related to, when you think about what fintech is supposed to be doing, like in the money movement and some of the hard parts, one of the things we do that relates to our better understanding is sort of in the real-time understanding of those cash flow insights.
A lot of the problems, for example, in the way open banking solves some of the problems that are being faced in more legacy systems, is that there’s more of a real-time interpretation of what’s happening in your financial life to be able to authorize that money movement.
And so in that case, I think all of that stuff is what we’re leaning on technology to just help the customer, the user in that situation, get what they need, whether it’s an advance in their bank account because they want their money faster, or whether those remittances happen kind of automagically.
At that point, none of how that works under the hood, that is where the umpire analogy comes in.
Because to me, that all just needs to live behind the scenes.
And so I think it’s to enable that goal.
So if you’re working with a customer goal, then I think you use the tech to solve that goal.
If you’re enamored with the tech, you can sometimes forget that the user doesn’t need to see all that.
And I think that’s where sometimes we have to be careful as an industry not to forget that.
This is part of when you do something really great, but it’s behind the scenes.
You have to remember that that’s part of what makes it great.
You can’t just bring that out in the forefront.
So a real-time payment is not the simplest thing in terms of bringing that into an app where you have multiple methods to deliver a solution.
We’ve got a way to use a debit card.
We’ve got a way to use ACH in a same-day or a standard.
We’ve got a way to do a real-time payment.
But in the end, it’s like, I don’t need to be a payments expert if I’m using an app.
I just know that I need access to my money, and I need to be able to choose between how quickly I can use it for different problems.
And if somebody solves that for me, it’s kind of cool that all those things are happening, but those should live behind the scenes.
And I still believe that.
No, I think that’s really cool.
And then you brought up speed, which of course matters.
And I especially think it has to matter tons for a gig worker.
When they’re seeking out a cash advance, do they need it that same day to pay for something?
Yes.
Yes.
I think a lot of the situations, I mean, one of the things that is so heartwarming, the emotion and the passion you see in some of the very authentic, not just a five-star review.
But when I think about some of the things that we talk about, very real examples of someone who didn’t have another way.
Their source of income was cut off, and they weren’t able to get back on the road and pay a bill.
And we can put the money in with a real-time payment instantly.
So the seamlessness through a mobile app to deliver the ability to interpret, understand who you are as a gig worker, provide the access to the capital, you’re able to pay a bill, and you’re able to get your car back and you’re able to get going.
You’re able to fix that.
So you’re not just talking about that thousand-dollar bill.
You’re talking about the lifeblood of your small business that runs your daily life, your gig work, your freelance work.
And so I think all of that being handled behind the scenes in a really elegant solution that combines a lot of really cool tech, but in the end, we can move the money consistently, instantly through a real-time payment.
And so the access to be able to solve that problem, but solve it now, is one of the core tenets here of what makes this successful.
And Jay, just a couple questions left.
But one is about you.
How should someone find you if they wanted to reach out?
And there’s a part two to that also.
What’s the most exciting thing you’re following in fintech right now?
Or what kind of technology are you most hopeful might help a gig worker graduate to the next level of what they need in the financial services realm?
Okay.
Well, I’ll take the, you find Ualett from Ualett.com.
And Ualett is a funny thing.
People probably think wallet with a W.
It’s with a U.
So Ualett.com.
And we’re also on the App Store and on Google Play.
Most of our folks who are using our service are through the mobile app, and that’s where all the action happens to ensure that all of this, a gig worker lives their life often on the go, and this solution lives with you in a very seamless and easy-to-use mobile application.
In terms of exciting, for me, what’s exciting is always building with a purpose.
For me, Ualett exists to build for the gig worker.
We have a platform that’s designed to solve that problem.
And so it’s meaningful to me to feel like, okay, what do we need to do next that’s going to impact your life the most?
Whether it’s connecting to a third-party partner that helps you save money, if you trust me, then I have to really vet hard how I’m working with partners.
So that if that’s not in my core financial solution, but it’s an adjacent opportunity to give you ways to save money, I still need to leverage and find someone who I can equally bring that level of trust so that I’m providing you and representing you well.
So I feel driven on that front.
I think on the more, I’ll tell you what, I think we have tens of thousands of clients going through this application who are ready for the next thing.
And I think that when we think about some of the exciting things we’re working on for this year, it’s really related to this concept of, what does it mean to graduate to the next thing?
What does it mean to be able to take what you’re doing and build on it?
And so I think what we’re starting to find is the opportunity through ways that we don’t run credit on our clients.
We don’t share their information.
But we’re actually saying to our clients now, what if we can translate your good behavior and authorize that to enable you to sort of demonstrate?
We can be a bridge to where you’re disconnected.
And I see this opportunity for us to be that bridge, for us to provide more of a way to sort of, so we’re forming ways to work with banking partners and work with other entities to say, how can we be that bridge for you?
So we’re digging in hard on that problem to figure out how can we be that bridge for you.
We’re very sensitive to what is authorized and how you would want to go that way, but to me it’s always the logical conclusion of that conversation we’re having with our client because they’re asking us.
So we’re saying, all right, well, how does this make sense to you?
And so I see that as digging in.
I think in terms of the tech itself, I’m more excited about my customer and I’m more excited about their problem space.
But when I get excited about the tech, it’s more, how can that help us do that faster?
And so I see in the ways, I think oftentimes people talk about AI as sort of a substitute or replacement.
I see it as helping enhance the ability to do something better, faster, not a replacement.
I mean, shoot, you’re out there with a Waymo today and there’s gig work because they’re paying somebody to close a door on a Waymo.
I didn’t know that was a thing.
Right?
Somebody gets out of the car and forgets to do it.
And so you think about the adaptability of the gig worker.
It’s like, hold on a second.
I’m not saying they won’t figure that out, but they haven’t yet.
And so there’s an opportunity that lives where the tech leads off and the business picks up.
I just think each of us should think of technology as empowering us as human beings to be more productive and live more.
It should serve us in a more fulfilling way.
Nowhere better should that serve us than in technology for the gig worker.
And I see those places where we’re out there problem solving with this group and saying, how can we use those kinds of solutions?
How can we use AI to create a superpower, to create, in this case, a superpower for the gig worker?
How do we create it where there’s a harmony between the business and the tech?
Because you can build that great car, but in the end, somebody had to close that door.
Tomorrow when they solve closing the door, there’s another problem.
And if we just figure out that harmony, then all we’re really going to figure out is how to balance where the tech leaves off and the people pick up.
And how do we make the lives of the human beings behind that technology better?
I’m driven and passionate about, how do we use technology to make the lives of the gig worker better?
No, I think that’s a beautiful thing.
And I hope that’s something the listeners take away and embrace for their own work.
And Jay, last question.
What’s the image on your phone’s lock screen?
What’s the image on my phone right now?
Yes.
Am I making sure I understand this?
It shouldn’t be the hardest question of the call, but you’re literally...
Maybe it’s the most unexpected.
Yeah.
Maybe you threw a curve at me and it was really a fastball that I stared at down the middle of the plate.
Say that again, Mary.
What’s the image on your phone’s lock screen?
I don’t even know.
It’s art.
It’s just art.
Well, you know what?
I’ll take that as a beautiful thing that just underscores your beautiful notion about helping gig workers solve their problems and continue to do so as they evolve.
So, Jay, thank you so much for being on the show today.
It’s been a delight to reconnect with you.
Likewise.
It’s my pleasure.
Okay.
One thing I learned is humans are still getting paid to close Waymo doors when passengers leave them open.
That is a very telling detail in the tech-human chronicles.
And again, this is my final episode hosting Money Isn’t Everything.
It’s been a blast.
One of my favorite things to do is interview people, and this show has brought me into the worlds of vibrant entrepreneurs who are trying out new ideas to improve something.
Improve a lot of something.
That’s really wonderful.
Two things that have stayed with me: travel with a coffee maker, and what has become uncool today may become cool later, including friction.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
And in the words of The Devil Wears Prada, my T-shirt, “That’s all.”
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