The Disability Economy, by the Numbers

Well, hello. It’s me, Mary, host of Money Isn’t Everything, a show that explores anything other than just holding money.

On the show today is a father-and-son duo, and they’re building something really cool, a platform that helps individuals with disabilities and their caregivers manage daily life decisions, including their finances.

And it’s a big audience.

According to the CDC, more than one in four adults live with some type of disability.

And that’s not even thinking about all of the caregivers.

We get into the importance of empathy, and we break down some of the stereotypes and what could benefit the audience.

Here is my conversation with founders Angad and Amit Sethi.

All right.

Well, welcome back to Money Isn’t Everything.

We have a wonderful guest here today, and I just kind of want to get right into describing the problem that you’re working on because you have such an interesting background here.

I guess the place to begin is, you hear phrases here and there of, oh, people with disabilities, that would be a niche.

But it’s actually a wide, big audience.

I was hoping you could set the stage a bit about how big this audience is.

So, depending on who you ask, always that.

But just to level set, having seen this world for more than 25 years, in the U.S., people who self-identify as people with disabilities is roughly between 62 to 70 million people.

And the way you look at this world is not just people with disabilities.

You look at their caregivers, their friends and their families who form the network.

Rule of thumb is it’s about two people for every person with a disability.

So you could say it’s close to about 190 million Americans.

And if you look at a global footprint, that’s about 3.4 billion people.

So within the U.S., we’re talking about more than half the country.

If you look globally, it’s about 40% of the global population.

So it’s a huge market from any perspective you want to look at.

If you want to just look at the population, yes.

If you want to look at it from a perspective of the economic wealth of people with disabilities and their caregivers in the U.S., it’s roughly, again depending on who you ask, close to about $8 trillion.

So this is not a fringe or a niche from any perspective.

Do you think it’s one of the stereotypes that it is a niche?

Yes, it’s a stereotype.

A lot of it is driven by, we look at the world from, it’s how I look at it, it’s a perception-based model.

We assume that if you don’t look like me, there are certain things which you cannot do, therefore you cannot buy.

I spent 25 years working for The Coca-Cola Company before I started working.

You have marketing groups focused on African Americans, the Hispanic population, because you value them as consumers.

But when you look at people with disabilities, the perception is they don’t make the buying decision.

So you don’t value them as consumers.

Whereas as a consumer group, that is more than half the country.

So a lot of how I perceive you as a consumer drives how I look at the market, and therefore discount what the potential of the market is.

Mhm.

Well, this is also a story that really hits home, the creation of LetMeDoIt, and I want to explore that personal story because it comes from lived experience.

So what’s the story behind building LetMeDoIt?

So Angad and I are going to tag-team and answer this one.

Yeah.

So we have two sons.

Arjun, the older one, he’s also a founder of a startup called Ascent Platform, and Angad.

What we’ve always encouraged Angad, from the time he was very young, was to take his own decisions because this is a place where what people do is decide for you rather than decide with you.

When Angad was very young, what happened at the school one day when you wanted to...

I wanted to cross the road.

The kids are the kids.

So when you’re in elementary school, all the kids walk to the school, and there’s a crossing guard who will guide that.

And my principal tells me I can’t walk.

And my mom tells me Angad can walk.

He can be independent.

So more about just, you know, the basic thing.

When every kid is walking, Angad was told by the school principal that you cannot walk.

So it was his desire to do that.

Yeah.

Hey, when everybody else can do it, why can’t I?

So that’s where we got involved.

Ultimately, he got in and we got what we wanted.

But again, it was like, when everybody can make a decision, why can’t Angad make that decision?

It’s a very basic and small thing.

And then you became a supporter of supported decision-making.

So supported decision-making is a concept.

You’re basically taking decisions with support, which actually all of us take decisions with somebody helping us, supporting us.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

The example I give everybody is, whenever you go from point A to point B, if you’re driving, maybe either you’re going to use Waze or Google Maps.

So you know where you want to go, but you’re using the supports to get there.

So conceptually, supported decision-making is similar.

And Angad is one of the five youth ambassadors for the state of Georgia for a federal self-advocacy organization called Center for Youth Voice, Youth Choice.

And that’s where Angad decided that if you can take decisions, take them into smaller steps.

And that’s where the idea for the app came.

Mhm.

Yeah.

So that’s where we started.

Angad started the core concept of what the platform should be.

And that, for me, was also a defining moment in terms of, yes, I love Coca-Cola, but this is something which is far more personal, relevant and important to us as a family and the ecosystem we’re going to serve.

So that’s where we started building out LetMeDoIt.

Angad’s vision of how the structure should be, and whatever I’d learned in my years of work, how do we create something which is going to be meaningful and impactful for our users and the caregivers and their families?

I want to get more into that, but before I do, what’s it like being a father-son duo building this together?

It’s a lot of fun.

Obviously, there are good days and bad days when you have to sort of move away from the father-son relationship to, hey, we’ve got to get this done.

But I can say that not many folks get the opportunity, and I get to work with my son on something which we deeply value as a family.

So I couldn’t have asked for anything better.

Well, I might revisit this because I think it’s such a beautiful thing.

But I wanted to get back into what we started with.

You were explaining how big of a market this is and that that is also one of the stereotypes.

But where do you think financial services most often gets this market wrong?

Again, it’s a question.

So I’ll give you the personal example.

Twenty-two years ago, when I walked into the office at Coca-Cola, I opened our account that day in the credit union.

I’m still a customer there.

When my kids had to open their accounts, get their credit cards, that was the go-to place.

They’re very helpful.

Everything is, you want it, you get it.

But still, it’s a question of there are standard products which are available.

You have to take from that.

We’re not understanding the consumer or the consumer group and understanding what they need.

If it’s an app, how you can navigate your banking needs.

What is the level of security which you would need if you’re a person with a disability as against not?

Where we get it wrong is we try to sell products which we have and expect people to understand and adapt to the products, rather than create products for consumer groups which are large enough where, if we were to try to do that, there would be a lot of value because of the engagement which we get with the consumer group if we create products which are meant for them.

Also, the other thing is the financial system, and I’m coming purely from the disability world, there is no effort to integrate.

The disability world today is numerous disjointed systems.

Whether it’s, hey, I’m getting my benefits.

How do I set up my budgets?

How does this link into one of the multiple other things I have to do?

So if we were to create a platform which, rather than seeming like disjointed tools, was a connected platform, there would be a lot more adoption.

So long story short, I think where we get it wrong is we are expecting the consumer to make do with what we have rather than create something which they need.

Mhm.

Well, that’s well stated.

That sort of brings me to the one segment of the show that I call “That’s What You Said,” and I’m quoting you from, I can’t remember if I pulled it from a podcast or a story, but I think it was a story.

What you said was, “People with disabilities or seniors do not need supervision, they need our support.”

I wanted you to unpack that a bit.

What’s the distinction you see between supervision versus support?

What are the important nuances there?

Okay.

So do you need somebody to tell you what to do, or do you need help when you want to do something?

So who should have the choice to make the decision?

You should have the choice, right?

Yeah.

So the difference between supervision, if I was to tell you, Mary, you’re going to continue this recording for 45 minutes, rather than ask.

It’s more about engaging rather than directing.

Who needs to be supervised and told, this is what you’re going to do?

If that’s what your life is from every day of your life, from morning to evening, then you lose the purpose.

As human beings, the power of choice is the most critical thing we have.

That’s what makes us human beings.

If I take that out, that is what supervision is all about.

But if I was to support your decisions and you were to say, okay, hey, this is what we’re going to do.

Can you help me do that?

That’s the difference.

Instead of directing, engaging and supporting in whatever you want to do.

Yes, there would be mistakes, but that’s, I think, the balance.

It also goes to the underlying thing, you know what’s best for you.

I can help you, coach you, guide you.

I don’t know what’s best for you.

Who am I to sit and supervise everything you do?

That’s the core difference as I see it.

No, I think that’s so important.

I’m just thinking of my own personal preferences.

I get so mad when someone tells me what to do.

I’m like, what?

Back off.

Even when it’s good advice.

Well, I want to get into your work with credit unions because I first saw you both on stage at the Reseda Summit, and I know you have a relationship with them.

But tell me about your work with credit unions.

So if you think about credit unions and their mission focus, they are member-focused and their focus is on the well-being of their members.

As we were building LetMeDoIt, Angad started with that decision autonomy piece, which is at the core.

And then we started looking at, okay, how do you, and borrow the stated goal.

Angad, what is your goal this year?

To live independently.

Yeah.

In your own apartment?

My own apartment.

So what do you need to be independent?

You have to have the basic understanding of money.

You have to have access to products which are critical for you to survive every day, or thrive every day of your life.

You have to have a bank account.

You have to have access to credit products.

You have to have a credit score.

If you really look at the world with disabilities, roughly 44% of people don’t even have a bank account.

Of the 70 million people we talked about, roughly 45% don’t have a credit score.

So in our country, if you don’t have a credit score, you pretty much don’t exist for the system.

Okay.

So how do you bring all those in?

That’s where we started saying, yes, I can go to the big banks and they become a 10-year project, or talk to people as credit unions where member is at the core of everything they do.

That’s where the conversation started.

Coincidentally, through Arjun, my oldest son, we got to meet with Ben at Reseda Fund in April, and they were fully on board.

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

Then we started talking to Great Lakes Credit Union and we’re talking to a whole bunch of other CUSOs, etcetera, because I think there is a connection at multiple levels with the credit unions.

They serve a need for a consumer group who needs their products.

They are increasingly looking at, how do we engage the customer rather than how do we sell them the products?

That, for us, was key.

Why credit unions?

Because they sat down.

They were willing to sit down with us, talk to us, listen to us and walk the journey with us as we start building this thing.

So from how we see our mission and how the credit union mission is, there’s a perfect alignment from every perspective.

And one thing I know, credit unions are after more members.

Ron Shevlin just put out his report called What’s Going On in Banking, but it includes credit union respondents.

One of the things that was cited was they definitely want new member growth.

It’s a concern.

So I imagine this is a very interesting idea for a credit union too because it’s opening up the doors for more members too.

It is.

And again, as I said earlier in our conversation, it’s not just the people with disabilities.

Now caregivers.

If you look at the caregivers, the families and friends, personally when we see a brand which is welcoming for Angad, the ability for that brand to get our business goes up exponentially.

Many years ago, there used to be a very nice Greek restaurant in Atlanta and we used to go there.

There’s a handicap parking slot.

The owner would not let us park there because, “I have to park my car. You can do whatever the hell you want.”

And that was 14 years ago.

We stopped going there.

Wow.

Because the brand was not welcoming for our son.

So it’s about how do you want to engage, grow membership, create products which will not just engage people with disabilities, but will give a sense of the welcoming feeling to the entire community which forms the people with disabilities.

So roughly about 190 million people.

Some of them, a lot of them, may have business relationships with other banks as well.

But when they see something which is connecting with them at a personal level, your ability to engage those customers, consumers, will go up phenomenally.

And you’re bringing up something that I think matters so much and matters in a lot of different ways, empathy.

Because I can imagine even going into a branch can bring on a lot of panic for a lot of different types of people.

I’m just kind of curious, what do you think are some best practices, even as someone’s walking through the door into a business?

But let’s make it a credit union in this case.

Is there room for improvement from the industry?

Again, it goes back to what I said.

If somebody with an intellectual disability walks in, don’t go by a perception.

Engage the customer.

Understand the customer.

Figure out ways.

And the other thing which I’ve told this to a lot of folks I’ve talked to in the credit union world, if you really see the 70 million people, on a population basis, roughly 18% of the population are people with disabilities.

In your workforce, do you have 18% of your employees who are people with disabilities?

So if you want connectivity, what are you doing to engage with the community?

If I walk in, if I see a person with Down syndrome or something, I would want to go and meet that person, talk to that person.

That’s where you have to create, one, obviously engage with the customers.

Create a feeling where I feel welcome, that people like me, whether they’re working at a credit union or have accounts, are welcome in that environment.

Create that ecosystem is what we need.

And then secondly, despite all the digital banking and everything, some people are more comfortable going into a branch.

If your branch locations cater to people with disabilities, or make a deliberate attempt to engage people with those communities.

Do outreach within these communities.

There are a lot of organizations who would love to hear more about financial inclusion.

Everybody does lip service, and people stop at financial education.

So much of financial education is good, but also give me a way to really live that education and actually execute on that.

Give me those opportunities.

If we even start there, you will see, one, a huge change in the perception of credit unions as my financial partners and as an employer, as somebody who includes who I am, not wanting me to be what their ideal customer should look like.

Well, I’m curious.

I want to drill more into the notion of going further than financial education.

Are there some organizations in particular that you think credit unions might want to consider aligning with?

What does good outreach look like?

And I know it could look like a lot of different things.

I’ll just take a personal example.

When we started with the concept of LetMeDoIt, initially it was like, okay, what’s the budget?

Then the partnerships came up with Michigan State University Federal Credit Union, GLCU, so people could actually execute.

Open bank accounts.

Buy some products through these guys.

Start working on credit.

We work with Great Lakes on, how do you help people build credit?

So engagement is understanding the need of the consumer and acting on it.

I can tell you 50,000 times what’s a budget, why do you need budgeting, why do you need a bank account.

But if I don’t give you the ability to open a bank account, what good is that?

That’s how I see it.

It may not be the perfect way, but that’s how I believe we can increase the connection between the community and the business part of it.

Be a part of some of the conferences which happen within the disability space, whether it’s a National Down Syndrome Conference or the autism conferences which are happening all across the country.

Educate your consumer and then engage them.

Don’t stop at education.

And I’m also curious about the caregiving aspect.

We’ve shared some of Angad’s story of why he wants to build LetMeDoIt.

But from your perspective, what’s beneficial to you in the caregiving aspect?

What are some of the features you would like to see more available, more readily available from the industry?

I think more, I’ll talk products rather than features.

If Angad was to open a bank account at a credit union, help him open a bank account, but help me engage in that process.

People with disabilities are the most vulnerable, or a vulnerable population.

How do I create this sense of security?

So I become the first level of risk mitigation.

How do we create certain products for that?

How do we create products which would help build Angad’s credit?

And purely one space which I find very, which is sort of nothing happening in that space, is how do you create products which will ensure that, when my wife and I are not there, there are some financial safety nets which are built for it, obviously within the constraints which the government regulations, etcetera.

So these are some of the areas.

Help him be independent for today and engage me so that I can help him.

Then also help me create a financial safety net.

Create certain products which will help me make sure that that happens.

Well, that’s some really good practical ideas for all those listeners that are hopefully getting inspired by refining a product or perhaps a partnership.

I’m also kind of curious on your perspective of fintech more broadly.

I know at Reseda it showcased a range of startup ideas.

But for either of you, is there any technology that you’re super excited about within the fintech space, or maybe even more broadly?

Is there anything really sparking your imagination?

I’d say within the fintech world, there are a lot of products which are there.

How can we create a unified platform which will allow for my consumer group, which I’m looking at, to access all those products?

So if one umbrella platform exists.

And also, how can we connect a lot of these products to everyday life?

In the world of disabilities, something which will help us connect with a smart home, with my appliances, also my budgeting piece and the banking piece.

Is there a sort of structured product which is available?

It may not be possible, but that’s where I would say, how will you make my everyday life as Angad, or somebody who wants to live independently, but build in the safeguards and security which you need to build so that, as a caregiver, I’m like, okay, he’s taking care of things.

If something goes wrong, I can always step in.

So it’s part financial, it’s part everyday life decisions which are going to be influenced by what he’s doing because a lot of our decisions have a money implication, whether I’m going out to buy groceries, going out socializing, or staying at home paying my bills, etcetera.

So everything is linked to money.

How do I connect all of them?

That’ll be something which will be very interesting, purely in the world we are in.

Well, it does sound interesting, and I hope we all see it.

I hope we see it.

And last question.

Well, not last question.

Two questions to go.

So countdown.

What’s next for LetMeDoIt?

And how would one reach out to you?

What’s the best way to reach out to either of you or to LetMeDoIt in a more broad sense?

Okay.

How can somebody reach out to you?

Your email, right?

What’s your email?

LetMeDoIt.org.

So the best way is to reach out through email, either at LetMeDoIt.org or Angad at LetMeDoIt.org.

In terms of what we are looking at in building the LetMeDoIt platforms, yes, we started building the partnerships within the financial world.

We want to broaden them to, from a caregiver perspective, co-create products with our financial services partners in, like I said earlier, understanding the needs of our consumers today and going forward from a safety, security, etcetera perspective.

And then we are also working on building those integrations.

Simple things like talking to Uber and Lyft and the Instacarts of the world so that everything is integrated.

The payment mechanisms are integrated.

Also controlling your smart home, everything’s built into the LetMeDoIt platform.

So if Angad is to live independently tomorrow, he can control everything from his healthcare appointments, to his conversations with the healthcare providers, to managing his banking, budgeting, paying his bills, and controlling everything within his house through the LetMeDoIt platform.

So there’s a lot to do, and we’ve just started.

But it’s a marathon.

It’s not a sprint.

No, it’s not.

Whenever you think it’s a sprint, it’s never a sprint.

Oh, it never is.

Well, I’m just so delighted to hear what you’ve already created and what you’re building.

And just my last question is, what is the image on either of your smartphone lock screens?

What’s the image on your phone?

It’s Arjun and you, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they’re the two brothers.

For me, it is the whole family.

All four of us.

All right.

Family business and family on the phone.

Yeah.

Family first.

Well, thank you to you two for being on Money Isn’t Everything.

It’s a delight to have you on, and I’ll certainly be following your work.

So thank you very much.

Thank you so much.

Okay.

So something I learned, autonomy is a feature, and it’s a very good feature.

Next on the show in March, someone who really knows brand storytelling, Allison Netzer, who’s an author.

She just updated her book, and she’s a storytelling extraordinaire.

Catch you then.