The Branch Will See You Now

Happy 2026 and welcome back to Money Isn’t Everything.

I’m Mary Wisniewski, Cornerstone Advisors editor-at-large and host of the show that explores early-stage ideas that could, if not already, shake up financial services.

Today on the show, we’re talking about something that I care a lot about with a really special guest, Andy Bandyopadhyay, founder and CEO of Attune Insights.

Andy has a wonderful background of working at tech companies, fintech companies, and now he’s doing work with credit unions to improve their financial health efforts so the results aren’t so crickety.

On the show today, we chat about making use of the branch for financial health appointments, why PFM was a dud, and the metrics that matter to measuring whether a product is effective.

Here’s our conversation.

Andy, welcome to Money Isn’t Everything.

It’s so wonderful to have you on the show today.

Thank you so much, Mary.

I’m a big fan and really excited to be here.

Well, thank you.

And it’s exciting that it’s January because I know January is always like, oh, suddenly everyone cares about new goals, which of course includes personal finance.

So I thought that’s where we’d start, new year, new you and how that shows up in personal finance.

I was listening to you on different podcasts, and one of the things that I found striking was that you said financial health isn’t an initiative.

So I thought we could explore these two.

I’m going to call them undercurrents, but they’re not exactly undercurrents.

But yeah, Andy, let’s unpack this a bit.

Perfect.

For new year, new you, personal finance, I don’t know.

I think the first thing for any kind of health is start where you are.

I always forget where the quote, “Start where you are, use what you have, do what you can,” comes from.

So let’s source it and put it in the show notes.

But I find that to be true whether we’re talking about our personal finance or our health in any other way.

We have to understand where we are, which means we have to look.

And looking can be hard and scary sometimes.

Like, I know I should probably see how much is on the credit card statement, but I don’t want to open it.

Or I know I’m supposed to transfer this old 401(k) from a previous place to a new place, but I don’t want to deal with the paperwork.

I think one of the best new year things is, if there’s anything like that that you’ve been procrastinating on or dreading or feeling like, do I have to?

Yeah, you probably do.

And you’re going to feel better if you do.

So bribe yourself in whatever way you need to.

Favorite coffee, favorite meal, music, whatever.

And do that.

I don’t know.

That’s what I think about in January.

I’m curious about what you think about in January.

Well, I do think about that, and I am in favor of pairing something you don’t like with something that you do like, just to make it more likely that you actually do it.

But I’m kind of curious, Andy, is there momentum that a credit union can seize on in this?

Maybe their members are more aware of steps they may want to take.

Yeah.

I think it’s a really good time to say, “Do you have a 2026 goal to get your finances in order? If so, come in for a checkup.”

You position it almost like an annual physical in a doctor’s office, or a quick proactive, let’s see where you are and just do one thing.

But getting people into the credit union to have a conversation to do that is probably the first thing.

If you want to do this in a digital experience, I think you could too.

But the first thing would be an invitation of sorts where, if somebody in your membership does have this energy or momentum or drive, where do you want them to go?

Do you already have a coaching program or coaches on staff or somebody on staff that they could make an appointment with?

If that, then just go do an appointment drive.

If not, what is the next best thing for someone?

I love this.

I remember hearing of a financial health appointment a handful of years ago.

Is it widespread?

Are credit unions doing this?

Are you suggesting something that would be a good thing to do, but it’s rare in practice at this point?

I think it’s rare in practice.

And I’m biased because I spend all my time with people who do this and do have this.

So I’m like, oh yeah, of course your branches are financial health centers.

So you just invite people into the financial health centers and have them do a checkup.

Duh.

It’s easy for me to forget that most places don’t have that set up yet.

But then I would ask, if you want somebody to talk to you about what’s going on in their financial lives and how you can help them, then what does that look like in your credit union?

Okay.

Now that I know that you are very aware of institutions that are doing that, have you seen any pro tips here for others that may want to emulate this idea?

Like, do this, don’t do that, or this is a really good idea?

Yeah.

I think pilot it somewhere first.

It’s extremely rare to say, we’re going to change this in all of our branches overnight, for example.

But I think it’s figuring out who among your staff now already has a bent toward doing this work and what is the lightest-weight certification training that you can get them, whether that’s becoming a CCUFC or something else.

Then saying, how could we maybe in one branch and one day a week pilot this kind of financial health appointment?

What would be required in terms of how many people do we need to have certified?

How much space do we need?

How long do we want to run it?

How many people do we need to sign up?

What does success look like?

The places that have been doing this for a much longer time know that loyalty and engagement really do improve when people know that you care about their financial health.

And two, their financial health actually objectively gets better by working with you through things like paying down their debt or building up emergency savings or having a better credit score or having an actual retirement account for the first time, whatever it may be.

Their objective health indicators improve along with their trust that you as a credit union do have their best interest in mind.

But it’s about how you demonstrate that.

It requires a shift from transactional to relational.

One way to make that shift is to have a financial health center and a financial health appointment.

It’s not the only way.

Well, I want to unpack something that seems to have bombed from the industry standpoint, and that was PFM, personal financial management tools in a tab.

Yeah.

What are some lessons learned from here?

Because I don’t think they’re universally known yet still.

It’s known that usage was never high, and probably still isn’t high in the conventional sense of how these tools first started.

But you still see institutions pointing to, oh, check out this tool that we have.

We’re helping members or customers improve their financial health, or here’s a blog on how to save money.

From your perspective, where did that go wrong, or rather not right?

Yeah.

I think a couple different things.

First, saying, “Oh, we’re helping members improve their financial health because we have these tools.”

That is a process.

You are making an attempt to help members improve financial health by offering these tools.

It is not an outcome, which is member financial health has objectively increased because of what we did.

That would be like, our members have X amount less debt than they did before, or our members have Y amount more savings than they did before, or their FinHealth Scores are X% higher than they were before.

Those are outcomes.

But back to PFM, I have so many thoughts about why PFM didn’t work.

As an analytical person, as someone with a PhD who’s a data nerd and a researcher by training who loves a good spreadsheet and who has done untold amounts of user research and data science on PFM, I really, really, really want it to work.

I want there to be this amazing software system that people just use and then everything is better.

But I think the reality is that the ways people manage their finances are so bespoke that even tools that are really popular, like a lot of people swear by YNAB.

It has a cult following.

It never got huge or used by everyone, but people who use it really do use it and benefit from it and love it.

The categorization schemes that people use for their own money are so vast and distinct that a spreadsheet is still going to be the most basic, flexible thing for the most people.

The more you make a technology tool or platform configurable, customizable, you can set up all these rules, you can do all these things, you overload people with complexity and they shut down.

But then you go with, oh, well, we’ll just optimize for simplicity.

Here’s housing, food, this, that.

Maybe those are not the categories that people think in.

So it’s a kind of damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t situation from a product design and build perspective.

I think that’s one.

But then I think the other one is there’s this sort of underlying assumption with PFM that if you just know what’s happening, you will automatically do the right thing.

One, there’s all this cognitive effort to even understand what’s happening because of fragmentation.

If you don’t have a PFI, if your money is split across a bunch of different institutions and apps, seeing them in one place is hard.

Why are the opt-in rates low?

Because even if you have Plaid or Yodlee or someone to aggregate, if you have to go through the connection and opt in like 10 times for 10 apps, that in itself is exhausting.

So it’s a lot of effort to get that view in one place.

Then it’ll break, or maybe it won’t be the view that you want.

So achieving that view in the first place is hard.

But then even if you have it, you can see the data and you’re totally capable of seeing the data and ignoring it.

It’s like if you want to be eating better, tracking all of your food will help you understand what you’re eating, but it might not in itself make you make different choices.

It’s a required prerequisite, but it’s not the same as, I have a nutritionist who is working with me, who understands what foods I am allergic to and what I can and cannot eat and how much I know how to cook and how busy my job is, and who is helping me with really practical barriers to implementing.

I think there’s a, knowing what to do is one thing, and actually being able to execute what you need to do is another thing.

It is another thing.

And then often, I imagine for a lot of people, it could just be a very bleak experience where you feel overwhelmed.

You’re like, oh, what I’m seeing is overwhelming.

How do I get better?

I remember that when I had to test out all these tools.

I was like, we ought to try this out with someone else’s bank account.

But Andy, there’s one segment of the show, and it’s “That’s What You Said.”

So I pulled something that you said.

“If we want to make solutions for consumers, we have to remember what it is like to be that consumer.”

You were talking about this disconnect when you were referencing this sentence, and it was about financial counseling being offered from nine to five, but then people not being able to take it up at those hours because they’re working.

So I thought we might zoom in on a little bit more of this.

It’s clearly important, but tell me more about its importance.

The reason user research exists as a field and remains an important practice, even in the age of AI and simulating consumer responses and whatnot, is that for someone to adopt and make use of, get value from, pay someone else for a product or service, even if that payment is continued engagement and loyalty and attention.

I also worked at Facebook for a time, where most consumers are not directly paying for Facebook.

They’re indirectly paying with their data.

To have someone continue to use something, they have to derive value from it.

And we’re making that value inaccessible when we do things like, oh, of course, you could come in anytime from nine to five when someone is working that whole time.

Or we’re making it inaccessible when you have to come in in person, but there’s not a private room to talk and the entire community is listening to you.

Or we’re making it inaccessible when we’re not allowing virtual options for people who don’t have a car or public transportation is really difficult to access, or it’s not walking distance, whatever that is.

So I think the “if you build it, they will come” is not true and has never been true.

If we want people to engage with our products and services, whether that’s our checking accounts, our credit cards, our deposit products, our financial coaching and counseling services, we have to understand what is required on the part of the consumer to access that value.

Part of it is literally, can they get there at the time that it is offered?

That encompasses the physical commuting or the time availability from work and stuff.

But then part of it is also, are they ready?

Are they going to be seen and not shamed?

If somebody doesn’t want to look at their finances because it’s overwhelming, and then they go to a coach or counselor and that coach is like, “Wow, this is really up. You’re eating out a lot.”

And you’re like, “Thank you.”

But I mean, that’s the underlying tension, right?

Somebody will hesitate going to get care if they think they’re going to be judged.

It’s the same in a healthcare setting.

So making sure that you’re meeting people where they are.

There are actually a lot of parallels from public health.

Making sure you’re meeting people where they are with the capacity and resources that they have, whether the time, the distance, the transportation, the fear of judgment.

That’s the biggest thing.

What we see as an obvious step may not be obvious to somebody who is working two jobs and juggling volunteer childcare from a neighbor.

If for us it’s like, oh, I’ll just walk down the street anytime.

I know that’s a five-minute walk and it’s easy.

Yeah.

It’s easy to be disconnected from other people’s realities, especially working at a bank or a credit union, I imagine, because it’s a lot of people in a similar setup, at least in terms of hours.

Andy, I want to talk to you about, okay, so you’ve mentioned, are we tracking, is someone actually saving money and those sorts of things?

I love this.

I also saw Consumer Reports put out a paper early fall, I think it was early fall last year.

One of the recommendations was, start tracking outcomes of these products.

Not just how many people signed up, but is someone actually saving money in your savings account?

I know this is your area of focus.

Where are we at as an industry with financial institutions tracking what seem like straightforward KPIs, but I imagine they have not been tracked in this way?

Pretty bad.

Yeah.

Pretty bad.

I think we don’t as an industry track an outcome unless we, one, see immediately how the outcome ties to our business goals, and two, we have the appropriate infrastructure in place in order to track it.

So tracking deposits is an easier thing to do because most financial institutions will have a deposit growth goal.

Then the sub-business lines, here’s our deposit growth goal for checking, for savings, for CDs and whatnot.

Then let’s drill into it product by product.

We’ll see that.

But even then, saying, oh, we grew our aggregate savings deposits from X to Y, tells you nothing about, did that come from new members, new consumers, or are we having deposit growth from existing?

And from existing, is it because they’re moving from other FIs, or they’re actually net saving more of their income along the way?

So I think having the clear business need for it and understanding how that connects to the bottom line of the institution is the first part.

But then the second part is the infrastructure.

Who has that?

The Financial Health Network put out this wonderful report in, I want to say, 2018 or 2019.

There have been a couple about administrative data measures that are proxies for the FinHealth Score, including how you would track spending, saving, borrowing, planning with the core data that you have.

Taking that list and saying to a core data team, hey, could you get me a report that has these things?

The response that I have heard most often in the credit union industry is, that sounds really cool and really valuable, but we don’t already pull it.

We don’t know where it is.

There is one small team whose job is to get data out of the core, and they already have tickets backed up for many, many years.

There’s essentially no chance of getting this, at least all in one place.

That’s the catch-22.

We can say, yes, we want to grow deposits.

And when we say we want to analyze financial health over time, who owns it?

Who owns the data and the reporting?

What is their connection to the person who’s accountable for the business goal?

Do we even have a data warehouse?

Is it tagged appropriately?

Do we have exports?

How much of a manual lift is required to extract this stuff?

All of those are questions.

The data maturity of different financial institutions is different.

Even when you’re undergoing, say, God forbid, a core conversion, or even you’re building a data warehouse for the first time, or you’re upgrading your analytics infrastructure, how you set it up, what you choose to tag, what you choose not to tag, really influences what’s going to be easy or hard to pull down the line.

So I think there are both elements of, do we understand that we need to track this as a business?

That as a business, when we improve financial health, engagement, profitability, loyalty improve, and therefore financial health is a business metric that we need to track.

Then also, do we have infrastructure in place to be able to track it?

Now, when you’re working with credit unions, what’s the first thing you do to help them understand where they’re at with their financial health work?

Yeah.

We set a baseline of, what is employee financial health at the outset, and what is member financial health at the outset?

We do that using the FinHealth Score from the Financial Health Network, primarily because it is better, faster, cheaper to start with a survey assessment than it is to collect all of this data from all of these sources when there is no single point of contact in technology or analytics to pull those things into one report.

So as much as we would love a whole financial picture for membership that includes all of the products they have at the credit union and all their accounts elsewhere, it’s extremely rare.

If there is the opportunity to aggregate, it’s buried in a PFM tool that has extremely low usage rates and low opt-in rates, and it’s really hard to access the data on the other side of it.

So instead we start with, what is the FinHealth Score on average, and then the distribution of vulnerable, coping and healthy for employees and for members?

How does that compare to the national benchmarks and the pulse?

Based on that, what are the unique strengths of this credit union?

What are the unique opportunities?

Then we’ll layer on, what are the existing employee benefits on the employee side, products and services on the member side, and based on that overlay, what, if any, gaps exist?

For example, there’s an enormous need for short-term savings, but no emergency savings benefit.

Or people are drowning in debt, and you’re not taking advantage of SECURE 2.0 to match student loan repayments as effectively retirement contributions.

So we’ll look for opportunities like that.

I’m not going to say necessarily easy, but we’ll look for where there are gaps.

Then where there are low scores, but it seems like the benefits, products and services are in place, we’ll diagnose it as a likely marketing problem, where you have the right stuff to help your employees with this or your members with this, but they’re just not using it.

So what we need to do is understand, what are the barriers to use?

Is it that they don’t know that this benefit, product, service exists, in which case it’s an awareness campaign?

Or is it that there’s some kind of access issue, like the, oh, we offer this thing from nine to five and our employees are not going to take time away during their job with us from nine to five to go do this?

Especially if they’re working in the call center because we have incentivized their performance-based pay based on how many calls they get through in what amount of time, and they know that is going to tank if they step away for 45 minutes to go do this free counseling appointment.

We’re saying, this is such a benefit.

They’re saying, what you’re asking me to do is going to tank my performance according to the metrics that you set.

Now, this is a reveal when you’re doing the audit of employees.

I think a common assumption might be like, oh, they’ll be okay because they work at a financial institution.

They know the things, right?

But I’m sensing that’s just not true.

That might...

Yes, you’re shaking your head no.

So what’s going on, Andy?

Not true.

So not true.

Somebody actually asked me the other day, do you think results are different between SEG-based credit unions and community-based credit unions?

Because if it’s from a SEG, people are going to be financially healthier because they’re working.

And I’m like, well, working how?

Working at what?

Working at what level?

Working at what wage?

What is the relationship between the wage they earn and what’s needed to live in their family?

The Living Wage Institute has this great calculator that says, based on your family structure, do you have a partner or not?

Do you have children or not?

Here’s your ZIP code.

Here’s what’s required to, at the very least, have bills paid, roof over your head, food on the table, electric bill, etcetera, paid.

If the wage that you are making and the number of hours available to you to work does not cover those basic needs, then of course working is better than not working, but it’s not going to somehow absolve you of problems.

Oftentimes we’ll see that, especially with frontline staff, especially your entry-level roles, there are folks who are truly, truly struggling.

Then there’s a sense of guilt there too, that, well, I work at a credit union.

I should know better.

But also, how are you going to know better when your job is very transactional and your performance is graded in transactional metrics, and any benefits to you for your own financial health are not accessible to you during the hours that you actually have available, which are nights and weekends?

All of the messaging is about people helping people.

People helping people.

We have to help our members.

We have to help our members.

But the reason on a plane someone says, “Put your own oxygen mask on first,” is we can’t actually help somebody else if we’re not breathing.

So we’re not going to provide very good member service either if our employees are struggling.

We need to make sure that especially frontline folks actually have the support they need and know what it feels like to be supported in their financial health so that they are then able to provide that support to the member.

No, that feels really critical.

And Andy, it’s a jump, but it’s about career.

You’ve mentioned your work at Facebook, and I know you’ve worked at fintech companies, and now you’re doing work with credit unions.

I’m just kind of curious, was it wild when you started working with credit unions?

Or were you well aware of the challenges ahead?

I mean, I grew up banking at credit unions.

So as a member, I knew about the credit union industry.

I hadn’t worked directly within credit unions, but it felt really awesome as soon as I did.

It wasn’t an intentional strategy in the beginning.

I knew I wanted to work in financial health, so I worked in financial health member organizations before joining FHN.

I was head of research at Varo, and then head of research and data science at Even, and then joined to build what is now Attune in FHN.

Then we spun it out into a related but distinct technology company.

The common thread across all of those experiences is the driving question: Is what we’re doing working?

We think that providing these products and services, we think that building companies in this way, we think that setting fee structures and business models in this way will help the consumer and be sustainable for the business.

But is it true?

And how do we know beyond testimonials or app store reviews?

How do we know that we’re actually improving the financial lives of people?

So that’s the common thread.

When we were first building Attune inside the Financial Health Network, the people who were most excited to help us build and prototype and test were credit unions.

So I found it so much fun to be building in a room together, to have sprints and once a week on Friday say, “Okay, this is what we made this week. What are your thoughts? Where are you going to get stuck? What’s working? What’s not working?”

So we found great, great, great partnership and thought leadership, co-development opportunities with credit unions who are not only using “people helping people” as a slogan, but who are actually deeply invested in building the tools and the infrastructure to make sure that we can collectively track, are we having the positive impact we want to have or not?

Yeah.

I love this idea of the sprints at the credit union because I have to think it doesn’t happen that often.

So if you’re entering the room and bringing up the energy, that’s cool.

That’s just really cool.

I want to go, so with your, you referenced working at the fintech companies.

But I’m curious because one thing you often hear is like a digital brand, oh, we don’t have to pay for branches, therefore we can give, in theory, better services to our customers.

I feel like that might be an overstatement.

I’m kind of curious how you think about it in this no-branch dynamic.

Are you able, does the business model actually work in your favor to be more generous with financial health?

I mean that broadly, so take it however which way you want.

I think it’s not just the cost side, it’s the revenue side.

What is the service you’re providing?

How do you make your money?

How do you sustain it?

So Varo and Even had very different business models.

Varo was a de novo bank, and the business model is a banking business model where we’re going to offer deposit products and lending products.

What we’re going to need to do to make that work is acquire enough consumers to have the volume for that to work.

That means the hardest part is first customer acquisition, because there’s so much competition for deposits from fintechs and fintech apps and banks and credit unions.

Then retention.

What are you going to provide that makes you unique and different and better for people to stay with you rather than moving their deposits elsewhere?

Whereas the business model of Even providing earned wage access was, hey, giant employers, including Walmart, you have a problem.

Your staff, who are the lifeblood of your on-the-ground retail, are not able to show up to work, not able to be fully focused because they can’t pay their bills.

You actually do pay them enough most of the time to meet their bills, but the timing is wrong.

Their electric bill is due three days before payday.

We can help you solve that by making sure that we’re hooking into your HR and payroll systems, only counting hours that have already been worked, and then we’re allowing people to take advances against hours already worked, and it’s repaid through a payroll deduction.

So we’re not going to have any losses.

What we saw there was a huge improvement in productivity and retention for Walmart and all of the members saying, “Oh my God, I can pay my electric bill now. This is game-changing.”

Nobody got into a debt spiral.

That’s not what we found.

We were worried about it, but I remember this FHN panel at, I want to say it was at an EMERGE, where we said, now we know our data is people are taking out 180 bucks on average.

It’s usually for a utility bill.

It’s automatically paid through the next paycheck.

This is cash flow smoothing that’s extremely effective.

The business model was a flat monthly fee per employee that is shared between the employee and the employer.

That’s a sliding scale.

Some employers will want to cover all of it.

Some will want to cover some of it.

But the cost of that was much, much, much cheaper than the alternatives, even if it wasn’t subsidized by the employer.

That’s an entirely different business model, where what you’re trying to acquire is these relationships with employers, and then through there serving consumers.

So I think fintech at large is a little bit hard.

Even if we narrow it to somebody who’s trying to provide your banking and provide deposits and loans, I think there are too many variables to say it’s having branches or not, it’s physical infrastructure or not.

Fundamentally, digital or in-person, whatever products you offer, however you price them, whoever is doing the paying, the consumer or an employer as a benefit, what the individual consumer needs is for someone to see them where they are in their financial situation with respect and care and no judgment, and then provide something useful.

That’s a next step.

And it’s harder to do that when what you’re offering is a checking account and just a checking account.

Mhm.

A checking account plus PFM doesn’t create that experience.

It’s more obvious in some ways how to create that kind of relationship and trust in person, partly because we’re social creatures wired to take in more information when we can see people’s faces and when we can be in community together or see each other at the grocery store.

It doesn’t mean it’s the only way.

People, of course, do build relationships digitally.

But I think we’ve almost made the digital experience too simple, is maybe not the right word, but we’ve tried to borrow all of these consumer app design and engagement principles from companies like Facebook and applied them to products that are fundamentally transactional products.

What you get when you do that is, this is easy onboarding.

This is a great app.

This does what I need.

Awesome.

What you’re making yourself is a really uncomplicated utility that just works.

That’s not the same as making something that is dedicated to improving an outcome for someone, which is more like choosing a doctor or a hospital or a nutritionist.

That’s like a doctor where the only thing you want from your doctor is they need to have an app, and I need to be able to push, please refill this prescription, and they say yes, and it’s refilled.

You can do that with all of this consumer UX best practice.

But improving an outcome is a completely different thing because that requires an interpersonal dynamic, even if it’s an interpersonal dynamic with an app.

So I think the analogies there are much more like, how do you work with a personal trainer or a nutritionist or a doctor or someone like that?

And that’s where things like, what is financial advising or counseling or any of that relational stuff?

How does that work at scale?

That’s the nut that I’ve been most interested to follow over the last decade or so of change in the industry and something that I’m actually quite excited about in terms of AI making more affordable, if we can have the right guardrails.

Somebody saying, “Hey, let’s make an AI financial advisor and let it loose.”

I’m like, oh my God, that’s terrible.

But my husband said this thing.

He’s a former data scientist, computer science PhD genius who became a filmmaker.

He said, “AI, if you are an expert, it amplifies expertise. If you are not, it amplifies confidence.”

And therein lies the problem.

Oh.

So what we need is, what is the digital counseling, coaching, relational financial experience?

How do you make a genuine, lasting, trusting relationship between a financial institution and consumer?

There are people who know how to do that exceptionally well in person.

Those are the people who need to be encoding their subject matter expertise into the AIs.

It’s not going to come from the engineers being like, I don’t know, we’ll read a textbook on financial planning and automate the rule.

Yeah.

Oh, Andy, you probably, well, you answered it.

I was just going to ask you, what are you excited about?

And then you knew my question before I asked it.

So I only have one question left for you.

Andy, how should people reach you if they want to chat with you more or work with you?

Yeah.

You can definitely find me on LinkedIn, Andy Bandyopadhyay, or you can email me, andy@attune.co.

And Andy, last question.

What is the image on your phone’s lock screen?

It is a picture of myself and my husband on vacation.

Where were you at?

We were in the redwoods.

So almost a staycation when we were living in San Francisco.

We just spent a weekend up there, and it was really lovely.

That’s the best.

Well, Andy, thanks so much for being on the show.

You’ve given me lots more things to think about, and I knew you would.

So thank you so much for your time and the conversation.

Thank you so much for hosting.

Happy New Year.

Okay.

So one thing I learned is how Andy believes assessing employees’ financial health is critical, even when it’s someone working at a financial institution.

I think that is so important and so interesting.

And I wanted to let you know that Money Isn’t Everything is moving to a monthly format, at least for now.

But I’m happy to tell you, next up we’re exploring a really important area of banking products, and that is designing for individuals with disabilities.

See you in February.