Open Banking, Bilingual Bots, Banking Asylum Seekers With Elizabeth Osborne

Welcome to Money Isn’t Everything. I’m Mary Wisniewski, Cornerstone Advisors editor-at-large and host of the show that explores early-stage ideas that could, if not already, shake up financial services.

Today on the show is Elizabeth Osborne, and she’s the COO at Great Lakes Credit Union.

We chat about one of the longest sagas in fintech, open banking.

We also get into an update on the credit union’s chatbot that speaks Spanish, and we get into common mistakes fintech companies make in pursuit of financial institution partners.

Here’s our conversation.

Elizabeth, welcome to Money Isn’t Everything.

It’s wonderful to see you and have you on the show.

Oh, thanks so much for having me.

It’s great to see you again, Mary.

It’s been a couple months, three months.

Yeah, it’s been a little bit because, for those who weren’t attending Fintech Meetup, we did a panel together and it was a lot of fun.

So I had to be like, Elizabeth, come talk to me again.

So here we are.

Thank you for doing that.

I feel honored.

Well, you know, there are so many topics I want to quiz you about and just get your insights into.

But I think the broad theme I have is access and different ways of providing access for a wide range of people seems to be how I’m putting these dots together in my mind.

But I thought we might start with one of the thorniest and topical and never-seems-to-die issues, which is open banking, which is of course in limbo again.

Could it be rolled out?

Yes.

Could it just be modified?

Also yes.

Could it stay?

Yes.

Although that seems like it might be hard in the current environment.

But one thing I’ve heard from banks and credit unions, or just people fighting against this open banking, is, oh, this is just going to be too hard for them.

But I’m like, well, Elizabeth’s actually worked in banking and now a credit union.

I am curious what your take is on open banking.

So it’s fascinating.

When I think of open banking, I kind of go back to the days of SWOT analysis.

Open banking for financial institutions, whether it’s a credit union or a bank, we should treat it as a threat.

If it doesn’t become a threat, that’s great.

You’re prepared.

But if you treat it as a threat, know that that is a threat that you could turn into a strength and opportunity.

That’s even better.

I think how it’s rolled out in the U.S., time will only tell.

We have such a unique financial infrastructure and system here.

I don’t think we can compare it to what happened in Europe because it’s not comparable.

But I think it’s really important for us to think about, if it comes to fruition fully, if that threat happens, then that means our members, both current and potential members, it’s going to be super easy for them to switch financial institutions.

Then you have to go back and ask yourself, okay, what can we do to make sure that they want to bank with us, that they feel connected to us as a community, in the community, as a financial institution, because we know them or we support them?

That’s really what I focus most of my efforts on.

Yeah, I think that’s really important.

I also love this idea of the bank hopper.

It’s such a niche person these days that would be like, “Hey, I’m done with you. I’m joining another.”

It just doesn’t happen very often.

Usually it’s like, hey, I’ve had this account for 17 years and I’ve just added on five fintech apps and blah, blah, blah.

But I’m curious, in what you’re describing, what do you think as a credit union is the way forward in this digital-first world?

How are you showing value, should it become actually easier for someone to hop bank accounts?

Yeah.

I mean, we want to make sure we’re providing the best value to all our members, and it’s not an easy fix for sure.

I think of it as a lot of different channels.

It’s important, one, that people in your community know who you are.

That’s the first key, because if they don’t know, for us, Great Lakes Credit Union, then it’s not going to matter to them.

They’re just going to whatever.

They’re not going to find value in banking with you because they don’t know you.

So your brand awareness is so key and so important.

Then the other side is making sure that if they know us, that we know them.

That it’s personalized.

That they’re like, “Oh, hey, Great Lakes Credit Union offered me this product and it’s like they read my mind. How did they know I need this right now?”

So anything we can do where members can really tie in that value add to say, “Hey, I bank here and it’s because XYZ. What’s the why behind it?”

It could be community.

It could be great products and services.

It could be that they have some kind of subscription account and they pay a monthly fee, but they actually see what they get out of it, what that value is out of it.

So I think it’s a lot of different factors.

Frankly, we’re looking at all of them.

I think we do a really good job at the community.

Four years ago when I started at Great Lakes Credit Union, when some of my ex, I moved here and I’d asked people, I’m like, “Do you know Great Lakes Credit Union?”

Most people are like, “Yeah, I don’t know. I’ve never heard of you.”

Now they’re like, “Oh yeah, I saw a billboard,” or, “Hey, I heard about you online,” or, “You’re doing great things. I saw you at this event I went to.”

So I think we’re really addressing the brand awareness, and that’s a constant effort.

Now we’ve got to work on the other side, the technology side.

Well, exciting side.

I like your point about subscription too, because I do think that’s a more natural path forward for a lot of products.

Just know what you’re paying for and why, and what you get from it.

It seems obvious, but it is a convoluted area of a lot of bank accounts, I would say.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Think about how many subscription accounts you have on your accounts, right, that you probably don’t even realize.

Okay, we want to create something that members actually know what they’re paying for and they’re appreciative of it.

So I have this loose rule for myself.

Once I add a subscription, I remove one.

That’s a good idea.

I like that.

Right.

I was like, take that $3.

Well, but then I’m like, I want it back.

I want it back.

You’ll almost get a cup of coffee with it.

Almost.

Almost.

Well, speaking of rethinking things in a different way and value, one of the things we were talking about on the panel was Olive, your chatbot.

Let’s just catch listeners up to what that is.

One note for the audience is that it understands Spanish.

So that’s me cueing you up, Elizabeth.

Tell us about Olive.

I love telling the Olive story.

So Olive really represents the true start of our AI journey.

Actually, over two years ago, I was seeking a solution to help our member support center, so our member contact center.

At the time, they reported to me, and I was tasked with, “Hey, Elizabeth, there’s a lot of opportunity here. Figure out how to fix it.”

Wait, that’s like, oh, thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I was like, I love the challenge.

Holy moly, this is a big challenge.

Also, I didn’t have experience in call center.

So I’m like, well, I know technology.

What’s out there?

What can we use that makes sense and will complement our current services, but also help to ensure that members that really need to talk to someone, they can still talk to someone?

So I spent a lot of time looking at third parties where you kind of offset calls to other people through other companies.

Those are kind of clunky.

They work, but they weren’t really meeting that need.

I don’t think that was going to be our big wow moment.

Then I started looking at, because AI was still pretty new at the time, the question at the time was whether or not our regulators someday could tell us that we’re not allowed to use AI.

That was the big question.

Can you believe it?

Think about that two years ago to now.

Wow.

That’s wild.

That is a wild thing.

And you’re talking about generative AI too, right?

Yes.

Yes.

We’re like, well, how do you know you’re not going to have it?

I’m like, well, let’s give it a try and we’ve got to tell our story.

So we found a really good partner.

I vetted a lot of people and I found Interface AI.

They had just great, well-vetted models.

They had a lot of clients on Symitar.

That’s our core with Jack Henry.

It’s a great core.

So we decided to move forward with them and we introduced Olive.

Olive sits at the carrier level.

What that means is every time a member calls our credit union, the first person they speak with is Olive.

I will tell you, for a lot of members, that’s great.

She’s able to transact.

She’s able to meet their needs.

For other members, they’re like, “I don’t want to talk to Olive. I want to talk to my person at mortgage,” or whatever the case.

They have the ability to do it.

But Olive transacts both in English and in Spanish.

We introduced Spanish last year, and it’s been a huge game changer for us.

Over 60% of all calls are fully serviced by Olive during business hours.

Wow.

60%.

Where the tool we had before it was less than 25.

We had very, like, touch-tone banking.

Yes.

I was just about to ask you what it sounds like.

Actually, I’m going to have to call up Great Lakes Credit Union because I’m wondering, what is the voice and how hard is it to settle on, okay, this voice isn’t a robot saying, hey, press zero or one or whatever?

It’s hard.

We spent a lot of time on the voice.

We got sound bites from Interface AI once we landed on a name, which we had to engage our staff to vote on because I was like, we need help.

This is a big decision because that’s our brand.

So the voice took some time.

The voice continues to evolve and improve.

I think on voice two years ago versus now, night-and-day difference.

Actually, we’re going to have an upgrade later this year and it’ll be even more natural and more conversational.

So I’m excited about that.

Oh, that’s really cool.

Well, I’m curious too, because I know a lot of members or customers, depends where you work, tend to call.

They’re like, “Hey, what’s my routing number?” or questions like that.

But I’m curious, are you getting any surprising queries from, always a little bit of a voyeur, Elizabeth, I guess is what I’m saying.

What are people wanting to know?

I’m not aware of anything crazy.

But I did find, kind of early on, that for some members, because they were just frustrated.

They’re like, it’s just not working with Olive.

Well, we found members have almost like pet names for their accounts.

They don’t call their checking account a checking account.

They were calling it something like, I don’t know, “my Miami account,” or whatever.

A random name.

But Olive is like, “I have no idea what you’re talking about.”

So it was like, can you further describe what you’re looking for?

They’d be all frustrated.

Then we read the script and we’re like, “Oh, did you name your checking account this, or are you referring to it?”

They’re like, “Yeah.”

I’m like, “Well, next time call it checking account. If you try that, guaranteed Olive can help you.”

So it was kind of funny seeing people have code names for things.

They were frustrated, you know.

How dare you not know my pet name for my...

How dare you?

Yeah.

There’s sentiment analysis built in.

So if they get really frustrated, it just automatically directs the call to a person.

We’re just going to handle it from there.

That underscores the move I do when I call a number and it won’t give me a human.

I’m like, “Zero.”

Yes.

I’m like, oh yeah, I seem a little unhinged.

Maybe I am.

We all are.

Oh, we all are.

So I think it’s especially cool, this ability to speak different languages, because I think it’s underestimated in the industry.

In the U.S., yes, we need more languages here because I know from different research and just calls I’ve had in the past, some people are really uncomfortable banking with an institution, with a credit union, with a bank, if there’s a language barrier thing.

I know with Olive, we were talking, I think even in March, about maybe Olive speaking Polish or something.

So I’m just kind of curious about the languages here and what would make you move on the next one.

Yeah.

I think it’s important to note that we’re Great Lakes Credit Union.

We are in the Chicagoland market, and Chicago is extremely diverse.

That’s one of the reasons I moved here.

I love the different cultures.

So it’s hard to pinpoint really who’s the best fit.

The easy one was Spanish.

There’s a really large Hispanic population in the Chicagoland market, in Chicago and in the surrounding areas, suburbs.

So that was a game changer because, frankly, it’s our responsibility to meet the members, speak to them in the language that they prefer, whatever their native language is.

So it was a good test case to see, do members adopt it and use it?

They are.

It’s slow.

It takes a while because sometimes they need to be told, “Hey, did you know you can talk to Olive in Spanish?”

But as we continue to grow and expand, and really especially in the city, because that’s where you find so many different languages and cultures, we’re constantly assessing to say, okay, should we expand it in other languages like Polish?

There are all kinds of different languages that we could look at.

Luckily, Interface AI, we’re really lucky to have them as a partner because they’re super open working with us to introduce new languages.

So more to come.

I love that.

I want to talk to you about your approach to how you hire fintech.

But before I do, I think it’s a natural transition to talk about some of the asylum seeker work that your credit union has pursued.

So tell me about it, because I found that very striking when we first met.

Yeah.

It was really incredible, and it was a big decision because there’s risk with it.

I’ll never forget the meeting we had with our executive team where this came up.

We’re like, there is a need in our city.

We have thousands of people that are here from other countries that can’t bank here, but they’re trying to get jobs.

They’re trying to find housing.

The city is trying to help provide some funding for them to help them get started, but there’s nowhere to put the money.

So we’re like, okay, how can we help them?

We actually partnered with the City of Chicago to assist asylum seekers.

We altered our account opening process.

We came to them.

We helped them with our online account opening solution and helped them to open accounts.

We took some risk with that, but we helped so many people with that, and it was such a need to be able to help these families that were coming here.

That was their only choice, to settle and have a place where they can then bank with us.

That was important, especially to have access to our mobile app so then they can access the funds, giving them a debit card so they can take money out at ATMs and really kind of get started in their new life here.

Yeah.

I think I asked you this at the panel, but it’s extraordinary how much trust is required because that kind of human, I’m sure, trust has been violated.

So then to trust an institution.

For anyone that might want to get into work here, did you find any especially helpful ways to connect with people who might have been like, I’m very nervous to hand over money here to open this account?

Yeah.

We had a team that would go on-site and have those one-on-one discussions.

So I think if we didn’t have in-person discussions, I don’t know if we would have reached as many people as we did.

We ended up helping, I’m looking at my notes here because I don’t want to misspeak, 529 people.

Wow.

529 people.

These were individuals with the asylum seekers emergency rental assistance.

So what we, I think that really shows that they did trust us.

They don’t know how banking in the U.S. works also.

Then on the flip side, we don’t really know them.

So we have to make sure that we are able to get the appropriate identification.

There’s identification the City of Chicago provided, so we were able to use that as part of our KYC procedures too.

It was on both sides, but it was really important to have that discussion.

A lot of our bilingual staff went out there to help with that.

For American Banker, I read a story a while ago, and it was actually a Wells Fargo branch.

It was somewhere in the Midwest, can’t remember where, but it was like this one branch had representatives that could speak like eight languages or something.

It was because it catered to a similar type of audience.

So it’s another example where you need to know the language, especially in that particular instance, I think.

Now, Elizabeth, you had mentioned Interface AI, but I know you work with different fintechs.

I’m just kind of curious, when you’re like, hey, I have this problem, I want to find some technology that can help solve it, what is that process like for you?

Of course it depends on what you’re trying to solve for, but are there some generalities where you’re like, yeah, this is how I’m going to test this fintech person out?

Yeah.

We look at it a lot of different ways.

I kind of like Fintech Meetup, where we met.

I go to conferences and I just kind of put a wide swath of openings out there, like let’s just see what’s out there.

That helps me.

I like to meet with the owners or any key people at the fintech because I need to make sure, because I think there’s a big distinction between a vendor and a partner.

It’s important for us that if we’re going to invest our time, money, and sometimes it’s a CUSO investment in a solution, that it’s a partner that aligns with our needs and that they have a vision that works well with our vision too.

That’s really important.

So I think it’s beyond just the demo.

The demo is important, but a lot of people kind of go straight to the demo and then they’re in contracts.

You need to get to know the business.

You need to understand what their teams look like.

What have their challenges been?

Looking at their financials, what are their projections?

What stage are they at, especially for some of our newer fintechs?

Then a lot of times, when we’re looking at different partners, we say, well, is this an investment opportunity for a CUSO?

Because then, especially if we get a board seat, you have a much better way, you have better influence, to help drive that vision, your outlook for it.

So that’s really important.

I find it through conferences, but I also developed over the years just a lot of really great partners, like the Curql Fund.

Nick Evens, he’s my buddy, because he’ll be like, “Elizabeth, go check out this one. Tell me what you think.”

Every time, I’m like, “Oh, they’re awesome. How did I not know about them?”

Then we kind of go down the path and see what we think.

So I think partnerships are really important too.

Yeah.

No, that’s cool.

Having someone in your corner being like, “Hey, this is interesting. Go explore it. Maybe.”

But I’m also curious because some of those demos are awful.

Let’s just be real.

Some of them are really awful.

Maybe it’s a good product, but it’s like, oh my gosh, we’re just all falling asleep right now.

I am curious, from your vantage point, do you see rookie errors fintech companies make that you would advise them about?

They’re listening too.

So I’m curious, any advice for the fintech entrepreneur trying to win the hearts of a credit union?

Oh yes.

A lot of them, I find, some really blatant ones.

They’ll reuse slides with the wrong logos.

Not our logo, someone else.

I’m like, “Oh, you’re talking to Great Lakes Credit Union.”

They’re like, “Oh my gosh. Oh, so sorry.”

I’m like, you don’t even know who you’re talking to.

Like, God, that’s too many packed Zooms.

Yes.

Yes.

I think more serious is, there’s so many, everyone’s like AI, AI, AI, right?

Yeah.

I’m like, that’s great, but being able to really describe what they’re doing.

What kind of AI is it?

Who and what’s training your models?

What are your guardrails?

Being able to explain all that.

Some really can, and others, they answer questions where I’m like, they have no idea.

They don’t understand what I’m asking.

So that makes me think, if they’re trying to sell AI and they can’t answer these questions, this is not a partner for us.

This is not someone I’d want to go in with.

So that’s important.

Then I think also, sometimes you get handed off.

Maybe you’ll meet with the founder or an owner, and they kind of hand you off to some junior salesperson.

Then they’re like, they have no idea.

They can’t pick up where that conversation left off.

That’s a big rookie mistake too.

I see that.

I was like, what is this?

Because the executive was still on the call.

They’re like, are you too fatigued to talk?

I don’t know.

It’s like, man, we already talked about this.

Come on.

There’s not that follow-through and so not being really understanding of maybe our time too.

I want to make sure I give it the time deserved, but I also don’t want to repeat.

You know what?

We have this in common.

When I used to be an editor at publications, you would get these wild pitches where the person writing them maybe didn’t even know the publication name and certainly didn’t know what it covered.

American Banker often got mistaken for American Baker.

Bakery.

Yes.

Big difference.

Come on.

That’s a big difference.

I mean, I’m curious, but one thing I can write about and one thing I cannot.

But yeah, just these things that are important to learn.

Elizabeth, I wanted to inquire.

I saw BankSocial and getting immediate payday to gig workers, and I was just generally curious about that because of course, here I am in LA.

Tons of gig work.

Tons of gig workers everywhere.

The cash flow challenges are wild, and that’s putting it in a nice way.

But tell me about that project.

Yeah.

So BankSocial, for those of you that have not looked at them, take a look at them.

What they’re doing is truly representative of the future of financial institutions in our ecosystem.

So it’s decentralized finance, using blockchain technology.

They have their own stablecoin.

But in this particular question, what they’ve done, and we’re using them for this, we’re one of their first.

We’re investors.

I’m also on their board, full disclosure.

Okay.

But they’re fantastic.

We made a decision on this because we’re like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting, what they’re doing.

So I get kind of geeky excited when I talk about them.

Yeah.

But John Wingate and Becky Reed are fantastic.

What that particular ad speaks to is the real-time payment network and FedNow.

So immediate real-time payments.

It’s so important for our financial institutions to have those rails.

For gig workers to receive that payment immediately, you have to have receive turned on.

Great Lakes, we have RTP receive, and FedNow receive is going to be on any day.

We’re in the final test for certification with FedNow.

That’s for receiving it.

That means any member that is paid by a merchant like Uber or DoorDash or whatever, and they change the rails they use a lot, so I can’t speak to this is right now, it could be tomorrow, but whoever they’re using for real-time payments, they’ll get to see that payment immediately.

They finish that job.

They finish their day.

They’re paid.

That’s a game changer.

A lot of credit unions aren’t doing this, but the big banks are all over it.

They’ve introduced it throughout.

They’ve had it for some time.

So it’s so important that we use this to remain competitive.

And also, a lot of gig workers will take on, let’s say, an Uber shift to be like, I need that money today to pay this.

This is why I’m doing that today.

So I think especially for this scenario, it really, really matters.

Okay, Elizabeth, I just have a few more questions for you.

One, I usually do it earlier in the show, but I’m doing it now.

It’s “That’s What You Said,” and it’s just a quote pulled from a podcast you were on.

You said something that I think is really important, not often said, but it’s, “Lack of self-awareness is a massive threat for leaders. Successful leadership requires adjusting your style to your employees, not expecting them to adjust to you.”

Yeah.

I love that.

She did a little, I won’t call it a side-eye, but maybe you’ve done dirty the other way.

Oh my gosh.

I’m so glad you brought it up because it’s so important.

It’s something that I really try to be aware of.

It’s important that all of us, whether we’re leaders or not, frankly, that we’re communicating with people in the way they like to be communicated with, not what you prefer.

Think about how you communicate with your boss.

You’re communicating with your boss in the way that you prefer.

Maybe your boss doesn’t prefer that way.

Maybe they do better if they read something, or I don’t know.

Could be all kinds of things.

So as leaders, we have got to be self-aware of that.

You have to think about, how can we best connect with our team?

How can we ensure that we are doing everything in our power to meet our team members in the moment to have that discussion with them so they feel like they’re being heard?

It’s like simply active listening and then responding and tweaking your approach to their needs.

That’s so important.

I just don’t see so much evidence of it.

You know what I mean?

It’s usually like, meet me on my terms, and I won’t even tell you what they are necessarily.

So it’s a power struggle thing too.

I think that’s really interesting.

Thank you for opining on that.

Of course.

Just two more questions.

One more general.

If someone wanted to connect with you, what’s the best way?

And what’s one thing that you find so exciting right now in fintech and/or is really making you mad?

Oh yeah.

So LinkedIn.

I’m very active on LinkedIn, Elizabeth Osborne.

So feel free to connect with me.

I’d love to connect with each of you.

Then I’m going to talk about what’s exciting because...

Okay, cool.

End it on an upbeat.

Yes.

I’m going to talk about that.

So I think with agentic AI, combined with where digital is going and with open banking, presents such a crazy cool opportunity because members, eventually what’s going to happen is your digital banking mobile app is going to evolve into your personal AI assistant.

That assistant’s going to know you.

It’s going to know that, hey, Elizabeth, heads up, you’ve got a bill coming up.

You’re a little short in your account.

I can click here and I can move money from this account.

Having that personalization is so key.

That’s coming up so fast.

AI is moving so fast.

So agentic AI is coming.

It’s here in a lot of places, but I do think it’s going to really transform the digital banking industry.

I love that.

Did you follow Digit back in the day that rethought automated savings?

Yes.

Oh my gosh.

I forgot about that.

Yes.

The founder, Ethan Bloch, has just co-founded something with somebody else called Hero Finance.

I think it’s going to be sort of working on what you’re saying, but I don’t know much about it other than he has a new act and it’s definitely worth following.

I’ve got to check this out.

Hero Finance.

Cool.

Yeah.

And last question for you, Elizabeth.

What’s that image on your phone’s lock screen?

Oh, it’s my family.

Aww.

See, they’re cute.

Yes.

Oh, look at that family.

That’s my husband, Justin.

There we go.

Then my son Ethan, he’s seven, and my daughter Kate.

Aww.

Little cute family.

Well, Elizabeth, thanks so much for joining me on the show.

As I knew, it was wonderful talking to you as well.

It was a great connection.

Wonderful.

Thank you again.

Thank you.

So one thing that really stood out to me is that people have pet names for their bank accounts.

I think I’m going to call mine “Let It Roll.”

Two weeks from now, I’m in conversation with Keith Armstrong, who co-founded a company that served the formerly incarcerated.

Now, let’s do something a little bit different.

See you then.