Why This Bank Spends More to Issue Corn Debit Cards

Hey, welcome back to Season 2 of Money Isn’t Everything, a show that explores rethinking value within financial services.

If you are new here, I’m Mary Wisniewski, Cornerstone Advisors editor-at-large and host of the show.

In today’s episode, I sit down with Eric Carter, the senior vice president of digital solutions and innovation officer at Bank of New Hampshire.

In today’s call, we explore why this bank is giving customers corn cards, their reactions like, “Can I eat it?” and what other banks ought to consider when seeking to help the environment by reducing the amount of plastic they’re issuing.

We also get into how Eric is thinking about fintech partnerships and the post-Synapse crisis.

Here’s our conversation.

Eric, welcome to Money Isn’t Everything. It’s great to have you on the show.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, because we go back to, well, I found you through the biodegradable card that your bank is using, and I want to get all into that.

But there’s only one segment on the show that we do all the time, and I actually want to start with it.

It’s “That’s What You Said.”

What you said was in an American Banker article, and you said, “I never knew that it takes 400 years for a debit card to degrade, and when you hear that, it’s shocking.”

That was said a couple years ago, but I was hoping you could walk me and viewers through what made you even go down that rabbit hole to find that fact.

Yeah, exactly.

Our card vendor had provided information about their different card types, and then that kind of got me thinking.

Honestly, to your point, what I did say also in that article, I think, was that when I realized it’s 400 years for a debit card to biodegrade, I realized I was part of the problem.

That’s the thing that kind of shocked me.

I’m like, I’ve been doing this for 18 years in this role, and to think that I’m part of the problem, where I think I’m very conscious of the environment.

My town recycles, and we recycle, and my children are very conscious.

To think that I’m giving out all these thousands of debit cards every year that are sitting in landfills causing potential harm, it just shocked me.

That’s what started the whole thought.

When I realized that, that bullet point really stuck with me.

That started the journey.

Then we looked at the different options that were available to us.

One is reclaimed ocean plastic, and as my daughter, who’s a marine biology major, that kind of piqued my interest because I was like, oh, that’s really cool.

But then I’m like, well, it’s still plastic, so it still kind of bothered me.

Then the other one is recycled PVC plastic.

Same thing, it’s still plastic, though it’s recycled.

Then there was the corn.

We call it the corn card.

It’s basically non-edible corn that this card is made out of, and under the right conditions it’s biodegradable and can be composted.

There are other things, if you think about it on a larger scale.

As the corn is growing, it’s good for the environment and taking care of carbon dioxide.

It’s just one of those things where, in the whole picture, it was just a better fit for Bank of New Hampshire.

So that’s why we went with that card.

Yeah, and you went with it, was it 2022?

Yep.

So it’s been a few years now.

I know there’s more interest building here.

I know Mastercard has made declarations like, come 2028, they’re going all in on rethinking their cards when they’re issuing new ones.

But do you still feel like, at your bank or in the U.S. specifically, it’s very rare to have a non-plastic card?

Yeah, absolutely.

We had a really hard time.

I was looking for other people to talk to and steal ideas from as far as marketing and stuff, and I really couldn’t find anybody.

I had heard Bank of America was going with reclaimed, I think, ocean plastic, and I haven’t heard anything more on that in recent years, so I’m not sure if that went through.

But besides that, I really hadn’t heard of anybody else.

Quite honestly, it was Europe.

We found some financial institutions in Europe that were doing it and actually had some really creative marketing campaigns that got my marketing team chuckling.

Well, that’s a cliffhanger.

What kind of marketing campaign got the team chuckling?

What does that look like?

Yeah, I can’t remember, I think it was Ireland.

But they had done a big billboard.

It was just a big ear of corn, and actually extending beyond the billboard were corn-on-the-cob holders.

It was kind of saying how their card was made out of corn.

So they really went heavy with the “it’s a corn card.”

That’s kind of funny.

We definitely get comments from customers when they’re like, “Well, can I eat it?” or, “Is it going to melt in my pocket?”

The good thing about this card is that clearly Mastercard wouldn’t let us do this if they didn’t support it.

These cards really, you can’t tell the difference between that or PVC.

So it’s the same life as a typical plastic card.

Yeah.

I remember when we talked, I guess it was last year now, maybe a full year ago roughly, I remember you saying customers were asking, “Hey, can I eat this card?”

Maybe it was even in your FAQ.

Maybe it still is, I don’t know.

Is that question still coming up?

It comes up on occasion.

But that’s what’s fun about it.

It’s a good talking point.

When you’re opening accounts and you tell them that they have a biodegradable debit card that’s made out of corn, it definitely is a conversation starter.

The staff enjoy it.

Customers enjoy it.

New Hampshire, I think, is, we love our lakes and streams and mountains and the ocean.

It’s just one of those things where it just fits really nicely with who we are and what we’re about.

Yeah.

Let’s talk a little bit about the math here because I know you have a different setup than other banks.

This card, it costs a little bit more than what you were issuing before, right?

Yeah, the cost was about 30 cents per card more.

But I just pitched it to the senior team and, yeah, no hesitation.

We went forward with it.

To your point, I think it’s kind of the same exercise we did back in 2009, which is really hard to believe.

In 2009, we were one of the first, we were a beta for Mastercard in a launch for the contactless debit card, which is now mainstream.

But in 2009, which was a long time ago, we waited a long time for that to get to where we needed it to be.

But we launched the contactless card, which was more expensive, and we kind of thought it was going to be something that was going to be valuable in the future.

We just didn’t realize it was going to be that far into the future.

But we stuck through it.

My point is that it kind of acclimated us to that increased expense that we were going to have anyway.

Same thing with the biodegradable card.

It might be costing us more now, but I think, like you said, the Mastercard mandate is coming.

We’ll just be ahead of the curve and not have to worry about dealing with any kind of deadlines on that.

Yeah.

Because it’s like, these are such big numbers that it’s hard for me to visualize it.

Do you have the exact number of how many cards are issued in the U.S. every year, or worldwide, or more specifically to your bank, how many are you issuing?

It’s kind of funny you said that because I actually was looking that up ahead of time.

I found an article that said three billion plastic cards are shipped globally each year.

Yeah, it’s a lot of cards.

A lot of cards, and that’s a lot of plastic.

It’s one of those things that, I certainly think about climate change, but I hadn’t been thinking about the plastics that a bank uses.

We hear so much about digital banking that you sort of lose the thread that, no, there are a lot of people swiping still.

It’s not just all Apple Pay with your phone or whatnot.

I’m wondering also how you think about how to know to keep a better version of a card when it’s also like the non-physical, or I guess it’s still physical but it’s different.

There’ll come a day where we’re using cards less and using our phone more, presumably.

I’m wondering how you think about that too.

Absolutely.

I think that’s a good point.

It really would be nice if we didn’t have to issue plastics.

I think everybody would be really excited about that because we still see card compromises.

It’s not what it used to be with EMV and whatnot, but it’s just one of those things where we are looking at digital issuance here at Bank of New Hampshire.

We haven’t done it quite yet.

So when you open an account, we can just push it to your wallet or actually give you the debit card number and PAN and the CVV value and everything you need digitally.

It’s something we’re looking at.

But still, whether you’re going to a craft fair or to hobby stores, I mean, you still need a plastic.

I think it’s getting funny though because I noticed the other day I was walking into the store and the Salvation Army was out front.

I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but they had a billboard with different contactless readers on the billboard for $5, $10, $20.

So you can’t even be like, “I don’t have any change on me,” anymore because now they’re accepting contactless payments for the Salvation Army.

It’s the same thing with the Girl Scouts.

I was going in, I didn’t have any money on me.

The Girl Scouts were up front, and I’m like, “Oh, I don’t have any cash.”

They’re all right, and they pull out their contactless reader.

I’m like, you guys are good.

So yeah, it’s going to get to that point where we won’t need the cards.

It should be on your phone or your watch, or you’ve got Venmo, PayPal.

There are all kinds of ways to pay today.

At this point, clearly plastic is replacing cash, but at some point hopefully digital is going to replace the plastics.

I’m glad.

No, I haven’t seen the Salvation Army thing, but I have seen musicians with the QR code for Venmo or something like that.

I’ve seen that.

I always think there are special apps made specifically for valet drivers too, because that’s always a moment when you’re like, ah, you need five dollars or something.

But sometimes there’s an app.

Yeah.

It’s coming.

I wish it would get here quicker because these compromises and the fraud that we see are still painful.

Clearly, a mobile wallet is safe with tokenization.

It’s a better mechanism to make that purchase.

But until we can get everybody over there and not using, gosh, I don’t know if anyone’s using a knuckle cruncher anymore, but those craft fairs, remember always seeing the people with their knuckle crunchers doing your debit card?

You see it from time to time.

Wow.

Okay.

Well, yeah, some things stick around.

Eric, I’m curious, if you were having a conversation with another bank or credit union, or even a fintech company, that’s like, “Hey, I should really do something like this,” is there advice you have for, here’s a good first step or here’s a lesson learned?

What kind of advice do you have?

I mean, this is one of those, not like a trade secret here.

That was kind of my whole mission with doing the article with American Banker.

I really think everybody should get involved.

It’s overcoming the additional expense, but I think that the marketing and the goodwill that you can generate from it is a worthy investment.

I think it differentiates your card, at least for now.

Clearly, for Bank of New Hampshire, it’s a differentiator.

So I think having more involved in cutting out the generation of these plastic cards is a good thing, and I think everybody should do it.

We didn’t have any hurdles technically.

The card works.

It’s a contactless card, as I mentioned.

So, no issues there.

No issues with wearability.

We’re not replacing more cards or anything like that.

The card acts just like a plastic card.

It’s really just the investment on the cards and the investment on your marketing expense.

But once you deploy it, your people will talk it up.

Word of mouth gets around.

A newspaper article here and there.

It’s an easy win.

Highly recommend others do it.

Well, I think it’s really cool.

We haven’t talked about yet the composting part of this.

How does that work?

How does this corn card break down?

Actually, yeah.

It’s one of those things where it does specify an industrial compost for it to be under the right conditions.

For it to be certified biodegradable, it has to be able to compost within six months under the right conditions, and that’s what our card does.

Will it biodegrade in your backyard in six months?

Probably not.

It might take longer, but it will biodegrade.

It just may be under different conditions.

We don’t do anything special.

That’s why, even when we were looking at the other plastics, whether it be recycled PVC or even the metal cards, it was one of those things where having to manage taking them back and recycling them or whatever was really more painful than we wanted to get into.

So that’s why, if these things end up in a landfill and you don’t compost them, again, the good news is that it’s not generating any toxins when it’s getting released into the soil.

It’s still just a good thing either way, even if it doesn’t get composted.

Yeah, no, that’s a really beautiful thing.

It definitely sets your bank apart from institutions across the U.S.

I wanted to explore also other things you’re thinking about, specific to digital banking, things that are adding value for customers.

I’ve long heard banks have this fear of being in the commodity business and just holding money, that kind of thing.

I know I saw that you have bill subscription features, I think through Billshark.

I’m just curious about how you’re thinking about, I want to partner with these fintechs to help rethink what a bank account can offer.

Right.

I agree.

That’s what kind of makes my job fun, finding that new way to do banking.

To your point, we did add to our Q2 Marketplace, which is our online banking provider, Billshark, which is a way for customers to lower their monthly bills.

Really, it’s a white-glove solution where they will pay for that service, but you give Billshark all your bills and they will go and negotiate the bills.

Honestly, I wasn’t really sure about it.

I’m like, well, how much can they really save you?

Even when I did it myself, one of my pet peeves was my, I won’t call out the person, but my exterminator for ants.

I said, I’ll try that.

They came back and saved me $330 for the year.

So I’m like, wow, all right, this works.

It’s just one of those things where, if anything, I think customers are skeptical about it, just like I kind of was.

I think it’s us trying to overcome that with them and say, no, this is legit.

Then if they can’t find the money savings for you, you don’t pay anything.

So you can’t lose on the deal.

Customers are slowly adopting that.

We launched an Envestnet digital investing solution this year as well.

We put within online banking a digital self-directed type of investing solution to compete with the Robinhoods and the Acorns.

That’s going really well.

We’re really happy with the results there.

That’s the nice thing about our online banking solution, where they have that open SDK.

Other fintechs can buy the developer kit and then embed their solution within our online banking environment.

It keeps us being allowed to innovate and look like we’re an innovative bank with these digital solutions.

We also have Experian in there.

If somebody has fraud on their account or they have been a victim of identity theft, they can do that through online banking.

So we keep trying to find other things to add to this marketplace to make it more than just checking and savings accounts.

We can make their financial life easier, improve their financial health, which is also important to us.

We enjoy being able to find these solutions.

I think, hopefully, regulators will be kind.

We’re conservative, and we’re not doing anything that is borderline.

We’re going to do the safe, easy stuff.

But I worry with the Synapse situation if we’ll get scrutinized a little bit with these relationships.

I think we’ve got our I’s dotted.

Okay.

Well, yeah, I was going to ask you more about that.

Do you find yourself more apprehensive, or are you still just going for it because these can be useful services?

Or are you going to be harder on fintechs trying to work with you?

Yeah, I think in light of the situation, for sure, we’re going to be more diligent in our review of that fintech.

I think also understanding where all the different touchpoints are.

I think the thing with the Synapse situation is that some of the vendors that got caught up in that didn’t think that there was any risk involved.

I don’t think that some of the customers that got caught up in it thought there was any risk as well.

We added a question to our survey for our vendors because we’re kind of like, all right, are you using a third party?

Are you doing banking as a service?

What financial institution have you partnered with?

I think we’re going deeper to make sure that we understand all the different touchpoints in case something were to happen.

But yeah, it’s not going to stop us.

I think it’ll probably slow us down a little bit so we’re more diligent.

But no, I think you’ve got to evolve or die.

It’s one of those things where we’re going to keep pushing ahead, but just cautiously.

Yeah, no.

Those are really good follow-up questions to ask potential vendors that you’ll be working with.

I’m also sensing there seems to be more added confusion around FDIC insurance.

You see bad labels from fintech companies promising it, and it’s not true at all.

From your customers, have you seen any more interest in being like, “Hey, is my money protected?”

Or is this still like, most people wouldn’t think about this unless they’re using the fintech apps that were affected?

Exactly.

We didn’t hear a lot on that.

I was worried, and we didn’t hear a lot on that.

I think if we were partnered with somebody who got caught up in it, then yes, it probably would have been more of a hot topic.

But no, I think at this point we kind of dodged that.

Most people don’t know what Synapse was or is.

I’m not for additional regulation.

I just hope that out of this comes some good, because I know a lot of people lost significant amounts of money in this situation.

It’s just unfortunate because you don’t want to hurt that confidence in the system.

I think it’s just one of those things where the people that got caught up in it, I’ve been listening to the court hearings, and it’s just one of those things where so many people said, “I’m not a risk taker. I didn’t know. I don’t gamble. It said it was FDIC insured.”

It’s really sad because their life savings was in there.

Then they’re getting confirmation back from the bank that out of the $200,000, they’re going to get eight dollars out of it.

It’s just one of those things where it’s a bad situation, and I just think as an industry we’ve got to learn from it so that these mistakes can be avoided in the future and not happen again.

Yeah.

It really is so sad because it’s definitely that, “Yeah, I didn’t think I was taking any risk.”

Right.

So let’s hope the industry learns from this.

Eric, as we’re looking into 2025, is there anything that you’re especially focused on or interested in?

You’re like, this is a really important plotline in fintech or banking.

Yeah.

I mean, at this point for Bank of New Hampshire, we’re going to be preoccupied.

We just signed up with Mantl to do online account opening, so that’s going to be keeping us busy for a bit.

But no, my whiteboard is always full, and we’re always looking at the new and upcoming items.

FedNow origination, RTP, that’s another thing that we’re considering.

I think we’d like to be an early adopter on the origination side.

We already receive, but it seems like everybody is in a holding pattern on being an originator.

I think we’d like to go there, again, conservatively, and probably start with businesses first for B2B.

Then at some point, we use Payrailz for P2P.

I think they’re going to be ready also early next year for these different rails.

So I think those are the two things I’m looking at for 2025.

But that’s the nice thing about the job, is that can change in a minute.

It can change in a minute.

This is a follow-on for you.

How does an idea make it to your whiteboard?

Do you have a, oh yes, is there a thread line that you can recognize as, yes, this is what’s bringing me to want to explore this?

Yeah.

I think it’s one of those things where it’s definitely reading the industry articles on different topics.

We’re an Alloy Labs member as well.

I think with the team, we always seem to get new ideas, and they’re always with incubators and stuff.

I kind of keep my thumb on what’s going on.

It’s one of those things where you just keep listening and finding those opportunities that fit your niche and say, “You know, that would be really nice here.”

We’re always kind of looking for something that’s going to differentiate the bank.

But yeah, I think really just keeping up on what’s going on in the industry.

Finovate is another one we typically go to.

You get a lot out of Finovate where you see all kinds of ideas that you didn’t even think of.

Then you come back and you say, “Hey guys, I need a bigger budget.”

But yeah, I have all kinds of ideas.

Those are words I always feel are true for myself.

Well, Eric, I just have one last question for you.

Before I ask it, any last thoughts you want listeners to especially focus on, or if someone wanted to connect with you, what’s the best way to do that?

Yeah.

If any of these talking points are of interest, please reach out to me.

My email is eric.carter@banknh.com.

I’m more willing than ever, really especially with the contactless and the biodegradable debit cards, to talk to people about that and getting those wheels turning there.

Any other topics, I enjoy going to these different trade shows, and if you happen to be there, please stop me and ask me questions.

Well, that’s an open invite, so that’s wonderful.

I know when I popped into you, I was very excited that seemed to be a mutual thing.

Yeah.

Okay, Eric.

Last question for you is, what’s the image on your phone’s lock screen?

Oh, my daughters.

Are they doing something in particular, or is it just like a cute shot?

Yeah.

Well, my daughter was studying abroad last year in Aix-en-Provence in France.

So it’s just some French pictures of some beautiful night skies in France.

Yeah, well, that sounds very dreamy.

On that note, Eric, just thanks for being on Money Isn’t Everything.

It’s a pleasure to have you on the show.

You bet.

I appreciate it.

This is one thing I already knew but want to reinforce because I think it’s super important.

I only knew this because I interviewed Eric about a year ago before.

But it is a shocking statistic, and that is, it takes 400 years for a debit card to biodegrade.

Wow.

Join me two weeks from now.

I’ll be sitting down with Elizabeth McCluskey, who leads TruStage’s Discovery Fund, a fund that focuses on supporting underrepresented leaders in fintech.

See you then.