Fintech’s Next Frontier: Trust, AI, and the Power of Partnership

Well, hello out there. This is Sam Kilmer, managing director at Cornerstone Advisors and your host of the Fintech Hustle podcast.

Coming to you on this steamy summer day, in a steamy fintech summer day, for another episode of an unscripted, sort of in-the-hallway chat with some industry leaders in fintech.

Kelly Schultz and I, I should say, have a rock-star cast for you today to talk shop and get right into it.

So without any further ado, let me go ahead and introduce our panelists, if you will, or our guests today on the podcast.

For starters, we have Melissa Cullen, who’s the president of regional and community banking at FIS.

You might have heard of them.

That’s a pretty big operation.

I am also told that Melissa is a board member at PayTech Women.

Welcome, Melissa.

Thank you very much.

Happy to be here.

Yeah, happy to have you.

Also Andre Clerc, who is the co-founder and CEO of Fuse.

You may have heard of them in the loan origination space.

Welcome, Andre.

Hey, Sam.

Good to see you, and thanks for having me.

Good to see you too.

Last, but certainly not least, we’ve got Tom Davis, who’s a general partner at Canapi Ventures.

You may have heard of them.

Canapi Ventures is really big in the fintech space.

Welcome, Tom.

Thank you for having me, Sam.

Great to be here.

Yeah, great to have you.

I should also point out that, for those of you who don’t already know, my co-captain here, Kelly Schultz, who’s joined as a guest co-host today, is a longtime fintech veteran and worked in several startup and established fintech companies over the years.

Welcome back, Kelly.

Always a pleasure, Sam.

Here we go again.

That’s right.

Here we go again.

So with that, let’s just jump right in.

One of the things I always like to start with is just to get to know each other a little bit and so that our audience can get to know you a little bit better.

Tell us a little bit about your day in the life.

Melissa, you guys have a lot going on at FIS, and I know you’re in the middle of a lot of it.

I know you always start with this question, which I love, but I also was thinking, man, I do not have a consistent day in the life, which is kind of what I love, honestly.

The consistency is it starts with coffee.

That is probably the only consistent thing.

Where I’m drinking that coffee seems to change.

Might be in a hotel lobby if I’m out visiting clients or an FIS office.

Might be out on my patio if it’s a work-from-home day.

But right now I tend to be doing a ton of market listening and then internal translation.

What am I hearing in the market?

How am I translating that to what FIS needs to be thinking about or doing in response?

And openly, also a healthy bit of impatience.

I feel like everything these days is moving so fast, and making sure that not only my team, but our clients, can keep up with it.

So yeah, I am spending a lot of time thinking and talking to banks about how they’re mobilizing around growth, trying to get a balanced perspective across banks of all sizes, strategies, and then really thinking about what does that mean when it comes to modernizing what they’re doing around fraud, deposits, lending, digital experiences.

They’re all becoming a lot more complex.

Those conversations tend to go in so many different directions.

But really, at the end of the day, it’s about making sure that the banks are looking at FIS and our market as a whole as more than just, they need access to products.

They need strategy, accountability and someone who’s going to help them be able to grow, regardless of size.

So yes, whether it’s internal, whether it’s market-facing, the days tend to be pretty different.

But then they also end with me spending time, whether it’s FaceTime or, more hopefully, in person, with my two girls.

I have 12- and 13-year-old daughters and a very, very tolerant husband who deals with all of us.

Hey, a tip of the hat to tolerant husbands and wives.

That’s great.

Take me through this, but I think it’s maybe, I don’t know, a month or two ago.

Didn’t you get, this is a new role for you, right?

Didn’t you come up through SunGard, through FIS?

This has been an interesting journey for you, hasn’t it?

Yes, it has.

So it’s been almost three months now heading up our regional and community bank office.

But I’ve been with FIS for 20 years.

I did come up through the SunGard acquisition, which we did a number of years ago, and have spent a bunch of time in our wealth team, retirement team, asset management, and really only moved over to what oftentimes we think of as banking, but really the banking and payments side of our business, about six or seven years ago now.

First running strategy and most recently running our core banking businesses.

So it’s been a fun journey, but also a way to get a lot of different perspectives on both fintech and what the banks need.

Yeah, it’s a lot.

It’s a lot of responsibility.

And I’m not just talking about the teenagers either.

I know how that works.

Well, Andre, what about you?

What’s a day in the life of a co-founder?

And I think this is not your first hayride either.

You’ve founded or been part of companies before.

So this is an interesting journey for you.

What’s your day in the life look like?

A day in the life, I can’t tell you the average day, but I can tell you in general the beginning and the end are pretty consistent.

We have a two-year-old and a six-month-old at home.

So I know that at 5:00 a.m. I’m going to have someone kind of nagging me to change a diaper, right?

That’s for sure going to happen.

And I know that by the time 11:00 or midnight, I’m going to be destroyed.

I’m going to want to sleep.

Those are kind of the beginning and the end.

It’s quite predictable.

The sense of purpose that kind of fills everything in between is just the highest level.

I don’t think I’ve ever been as happy and fulfilled as I’ve been since I started this business with Mark, now five years or so ago.

Day in the life is, I live in New York, but sometimes I’m on the road.

It will be kind of going through Slack, seeing what are the priorities, where things have emerged.

Kind of get a thermometer check of the existing customers, how happy they are, what is in pipeline for those customers that we can help them in terms of product launches.

What kind of needs are there?

Being a system of record, naturally there’s the opportunity to add new point solutions and features that add value for the customer, but also add value for us in the ecosystem that we have.

And of course, a platform of customers we can actually bring to.

Speaking with my sales folks, how can we advance deals forward?

Sometimes multiple times a week I’m speaking with Melissa’s team and just trying to see what RFPs are in scope, how are we thinking about the demos, are we thinking about making a splash?

For example, this week there were weeks and weeks of coordination on a product, but also from an example, we announced the AI POS.

Everything that comes into it, there’s a lot of thinking.

What channels are we going to use?

How are we going to make sure that the message dissipates?

On top of that, you have to do all the strategic thinking so that the business continues to scale at the level that you have set for yourself, that you promise investors and ultimately your employees and all your clients.

So that’s kind of a day in the life.

I’m on the road flying a lot.

Nothing fancy.

As I tell my friends, I’m an expert on the Fairfields and Courtyards of the world.

I’m still not, my only luxury is nonstop, but still coach.

I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Probably the only thing in the last couple years, since I had kids, I don’t enjoy turbulence as I used to.

That’s probably the only minus that I can see in this great tapestry of experiences that I’ve been able to have thanks to our clients, my employees, co-founder and investors.

Congrats on that launch, by the way.

Super impressive and exciting.

I can certainly resonate on the Courtyards and the coach flying.

So there we are.

This is really interesting, Sam.

I think both of you guys so far have hit on a point that I think I want to just amplify for a second, and that’s you’re listening.

You are listening for client feedback.

You’re listening into the internal channels.

You’re taking that information on a daily basis and then developing strategy from that.

Melissa, your point about speaking to clients not only about the products and solutions that fit, but why, and the advisory side of how to help them grow, I think is just music to my ears.

We need to do more of that as an industry.

Anybody can deliver a product, but how do we make sure the fit is right and the execution is right with that, and make sure that fits the strategy?

Super important.

I really love that.

It is.

I think in today’s age, where products are going to be easier and faster to turn out, the why is so much more important.

Tom, I’ve got to think that that’s a big part of what you look at when you’re thinking about companies that you want to take a stake in.

I think that’s exactly right.

I think, Melissa, so many people always think with venture or growth investing, is it just the numbers?

The why is so critical.

I’ll get into this in a bit, but I spend a lot of my day talking to customers of companies that we look at and our banks, our investors or our LPs, our commercial banks.

The why is so critical, particularly with all the noise right now with AI and everything else going on, that you can get caught in the headline numbers.

But the why.

I think that’s really well said.

Anything about your day in the life that you didn’t just mention there that we should know about?

I imagine because you’ve got the banks on one side, you’ve got the tech companies.

Mad respect, Neil Underwood was on the podcast a couple years ago, and I was just looking at your...

By the way, I told him this morning I was going to be talking to you, and he asked to say hello.

Say hello from Neil.

Oh yeah, appreciate that.

He’s always a bundle of energy.

But what I was struck by when I was looking over the portfolio this morning is obviously lots of familiar names of the companies.

But I guess it was just the number of them.

I knew of them, but I guess until I went and looked at the whole list again, just how much it’s grown, how many companies you’re invested in.

So I imagine the scope of your day is really interesting before you end up at the Courtyard or the Hampton Inn or whatever.

Yeah.

Well, I live in San Francisco, so I don’t have a front porch.

And I also don’t drink coffee.

But I do try every morning to get out for a run or bike ride.

I figure I’m paying all this big money to live out here.

I might as well enjoy a view of the Golden Gate Bridge or something in the morning.

My day typically starts by talking to someone in our network, within our portfolio companies.

To your point, Sam, we have a lot of companies.

We do a lot at both the early stage and the growth stage.

I think our companies are at different points of growth.

Some of them have two or three employees, some have 600 employees.

But when I look at my day, I try and split it into three parts.

A third is really spending time with our portfolio companies.

That could be the CEO, that could be someone on the team, kind of talking through what’s going on with them and how we can be helpful.

We do have about 75 banks and FIs as LPs, and many of our companies sell into those banks.

So they may have challenges that we talk through.

About a third of my day is spent finding new opportunities, so meeting with entrepreneurs or people in my network on some of those bike rides or runs.

It might be other investors or operators that I’m speaking with to try and find good investment opportunities.

Then probably a third is on the diligence around that.

That can mean a lot of different things.

That can be going out and speaking to customers.

That can mean speaking to folks at Live Oak or Neil on our team about what they think about distribution or sales.

A lot of it, though, is really out speaking to our banks.

So I really split it those three ways.

Looking for new opportunities, spending time with our portfolio, and then spending time in the market and diligencing.

I think that’s the best part of my job.

I’ve always told people, we get paid to meet incredibly fascinating operators and entrepreneurs and speak to banks who’ve got all sorts of different regulatory challenges and interesting new products they’re offering.

So it’s a pretty good mix each day of those items.

Very interesting.

I’m curious, you’re having so many conversations, such variety.

You mentioned the AI noise.

Of course, there’s also a lot of AI signal too in the noise, but you’re right, there’s just a large volume of that type of activity.

I’m curious of all the things that you’re hearing in the market or seeing, what’s something, I guess I’ll start with you, Tom.

What’s something you’re seeing in the fintech market right now that really excites you or really stands out to you?

Is there anything that you’re seeing that really pops out in the market?

I’m curious what you all think as well.

To your point on AI signal versus hype, I think one area that we’ve been excited about recently is agentic customer success within banks and within fintech, and what that really means.

You have companies, none of which we’re investors in, but you have companies like Sierra AI and Decagon and ElevenLabs, these big horizontal companies that started probably in the retail vertical, offering the ability for when you call in with an issue as a consumer, that you have an agent that can handle that conversation and all the different pieces that go along with that.

I think people thought originally that was just customer service.

Okay, I want to return an item.

I bought a pair of jeans.

It’s not right.

I want to return it, get a refund, get something else.

Well, in the world of banking and fintech, that might mean change of address or closing an account and basic things like that.

But when you start to think about what you can do with the upsell and the cross-sell and the way that you can do that in a regulatory-friendly way, that’s where we are seeing our banks get excited.

I think we’re spending a lot of time, and I think an area where there’s clear ROI.

You hear everyone talk right now about AI hype.

What we see as investors is kind of what’s recurring revenue versus experimental revenue.

What revenue will exist with this company a year from now versus a company going out and saying, “I like this idea. I’m going to try three different vendors, and in a year I may be down to one vendor or I may be down to zero vendors.”

I think that’s the noise for us as investors.

What’s really recurring revenue?

What’s going to drive ROI?

For us right now, and we’re hearing from more banks, is we love the agentic customer success areas.

That’s just one area we’ve been spending a fair amount of time.

Very good.

So Andre, I’m curious to Tom’s point about things that really excite him about the market and trying to separate between the signal and the noise.

Is there anything that pops out at you in the market right now, really gets you excited when you’re headed back to the Courtyard for the evening and thinking about the day?

What’s something that pops out at you in the market right now that really gets you excited?

I think there’s plenty to be excited and also humble and kind of more micro-concerned about.

I’ll tell you what excites me.

The conversations around the openness, around really double-clicking on AI and really adopting the technology, is real.

Sales cycles are compressing, which in the category that’s highly enterprise, it’s really moving fast.

The cost to ship product has dropped dramatically.

The thesis around replacement of other categories that are not only software is also coming to fruition.

To some extent, I also see the pricing needing to evolve.

The era in which you only sell usage, I think it’s evolving to sell outcomes.

At the same time, it is also selling accountability.

If you’re actually going to replace people, you need to be willing to back that with accountability rather than usage.

So I see that convergence of, okay, maybe we’ve reached a new frontier, but it’s coming with a different type of mix.

What I do like at the same time is that the buyer is still used to contracting in a SaaS way.

With minimum commitments, with longer duration.

There’s that alignment that allows you as a founder and a business owner to actually plan ahead and be like, okay, I can actually align with my partner.

If anything, it has created better alignment in terms of what the objectives of both parties are.

It’s a great time to be in the space.

From people being trigger-shy, I see a much more willingness to not only engage in conversations but actually sign contracts that are not just small pilots, but really long-term commitments to work alongside with you.

That in itself is very promising.

Very interesting.

So cost to ship down at the same time of finding people willing to make some pretty firm commitments in the long term.

That’s a hell of a great combination if you’re a fintech entrepreneur.

Of course, I’m sure there are also some downsides we’ll talk about too.

But that’s pretty good.

What about you, Melissa?

What jazzes you about the space right now?

I’ve got to say, to your point, it is such a great time to be in fintech, but also a great time to be in banking and financial services as well.

It just seems to be growth across the board.

Kind of talking to the AI theme that we’ve been on, what it is enabling us to accomplish is probably the thing that excites me the most.

Clearly, we were in the phase of just, how are we going to adopt it?

We have truly now moved into no more experimentation, actual use cases.

I think the piece, Tom, you hit on it, is in a regulatory-compliant way.

We are not using AI for recommendations on the upcoming trip or things like that.

The stakes are so much higher.

So I think the piece that gets me really jazzed is probably three things.

One, trust by design.

How do we think about AI from the start in a way that is regulatory-compliant, that is going to bring the right data and cut through that noise so that our banks have actionable things that they are doing that are trusted and compliant?

I think the other piece that really gets me excited, obviously from a fintech perspective, is the fact that it allows us to reimagine how we are bringing things to market, not just the speed at which we’re bringing things to market.

I said earlier I came out of running core banking most recently.

The fact that we can now create these agentic experiences, like what we’re used to with Claude and Copilot, directly in the core systems themselves is going to change the way banking happens.

I think I still go back, as an investor, to the core of what do you really need with all this new tech?

You need distribution.

What’s so cool about what you all have is you have the distribution and trust, and you have the ability to push product where people know this is coming from an entity that we trust is compliant.

We trust is going to put something out.

I’m curious how you’ve used that advantage that you have on distribution with so many customers that so many AI companies would love to be able to access and sell to.

Just such a cool platform.

Yes, but it’s also a huge responsibility, right?

That trust and keeping that trust.

One of the things we’ve done, I’ll talk to a couple things.

We have what we call a chief trust officer as part of our C-suite that really is a distinct and different role from the chief risk officer or our CISO.

It is all around trust by design from the start, especially around AI and data.

But then also making sure we are educating not only all of our employees about that responsibility in terms of how we’re developing, what we’re developing, the data that is going into the models that we’re using, but then also educating our clients about what they should be asking.

When it comes to whether it’s FIS providing that technology or another partner that they’re using, what do they have to be thinking about?

Because yes, we do have broad distribution.

We have great trust for the solutions that they rely on, these applications that are mission-critical.

But that’s also a lot of responsibility and needs to really come with the safeguards of how we are deploying both AI internally and then for our clients.

Yeah.

As a bystander or a partner of FIS, I cannot stress enough how serious they take who they onboard.

The process partnering with them was very detailed.

As someone who has now been seeing from the inside how a discovery process works for FIS, the only thing that I can compare it against as a former banker is like a bake-off.

Every single meeting is at the highest level.

For me, it has been a master class on enterprise-level support for customers.

Obviously, coming from a startup, the range of the sizes of your customers is going to carry you a little bit more.

But seeing it from having access to that, it has been incredible to see the level of detail.

It really reminds me of my investment banking days.

It’s nothing short of that.

Well, it’s interesting, Andre, because I feel like in the world of AI with all this going on, there are two things around the trust, but also the support.

You mentioned this earlier on kind of success-based or usage-based pricing.

I think the best AI companies are kind of taking some of this forward-deployed engineer, Palantir model, which we all might call customer success in the old days.

You can’t just roll the product out.

The customer has to be trained in it.

They have to use it.

They have to know how to use it.

Then the incentives have to be the same.

For a lot of the fintechs that we talk to that are not at the stage of FIS, but maybe at the stage of three employees and having taken a couple million dollars, and they say to Canapi, “Hey, what does success look like for your best companies?”

We really talk about those pillars.

You have to show up for your customer.

They have to feel that you’re there, and you have to get adoption of your product within the enterprise that you’re selling to.

I think that’s kind of a chicken and egg.

Kelly, you said distribution is everything.

You can distribute, but are people using it?

Are incentives aligned around people paying for that?

I think that’s a really interesting balance right now for our earlier-stage fintechs who want to emulate some of the FISs of the world on the adoption and the customer success and the trust.

No, I was going to say I also think about that because we talked about cost of being able to deploy is coming down, speed is becoming faster.

The ecosystems that are surrounding these banks of all different fintech providers are going to continue to get bigger before I think it inevitably starts to right-size itself again.

In that, how we think about partnership across the industry of fintech and the integration, and protection of data while also sharing data on behalf of the clients, really becomes an interesting area to go deeper on.

I think you’ll see more and more fintech providers come to the table with partnerships.

It’s where we spend obviously a lot of time with some of the companies in Tom’s portfolio, certainly with Fuse and Andre.

But I think that’s going to become more of the norm in how we operate.

Kelly?

Well, I think the topic of adoption probably is huge.

You can distribute product, and that’s been the name of the game for a long time in the industry.

We can bring product to market.

But if the market’s not adopting, we’re not promoting, we’re not actively engaging, then product will fall by the wayside, sales will fall by the wayside, company will fall by the wayside at the end of the day.

In the age of AI, I think it’s interesting to see how the ecosystem is kind of being reinvented.

We’re starting to layer in those data connections and things to create richer experiences for users of the platform, whatever that ultimate product may be that is being delivered.

I think it’s kind of a general statement.

We need to bring that experience to bear so that we’re leveraging everything that we can through these partnerships to create that uniform experience, to represent the brand, the bank, the credit union, whoever we’re representing.

I think there are some opportunities, some challenges, all the things there.

But I guess, how are you dealing with, and I guess this question is more for Melissa or Andre, challenges with consumers having bad experiences with agentic AI?

I know I’ve had my share of them.

They can be pretty bad.

When they’re bad, they’re really bad.

When they’re great, they’re really great.

There’s very little in between.

So how do you deal with that?

How are you grappling with the experience and making sure that that experience is positive and not one that has the user rage-clicking or cussing out the AI agent at the end of the day because it’s so poor?

How do you deal with that?

Maybe I’ll start, and Andre, feel free to weigh in.

I think we had some early lessons learned, openly.

I talked about FIS.

One of the first product development things we did a little over a year ago was around commercial banking, and it was a separate agentic experience.

Lesson learned from that, you’ve got to embed the experience where the client is going to be, whether that’s the consumer coming in to get a loan or open a new account, or whether that’s the branch employee and the systems they use every day.

So one is in the natural workflow versus a separate workflow.

The other piece honestly comes down to the data and the models, right?

Are you feeding it with the right data?

Are you testing it thoroughly with the models?

Because that’s going to reduce those ridiculous hallucination answers that you get when people get so frustrated.

And you’ve got to give them an option out.

Today, I will say, everything FIS is doing from a development perspective, and most of what I’m seeing our banks adopt, regardless of whether it’s FIS, is human-assisted.

There is always the option before something goes all the way through for someone to have eyes and approval on it.

I think that’s going to change over time, but it’s not going to change until we see improved, consistent results.

As a former investor, that was very thoughtful, Melissa.

As a former investor, one of the reasons why I like this space is because the NPS scores in my category were so low.

There’s a lot of room for improvement.

I also knew that that signaled there was a very demanding customer.

They’re not necessarily unhappy because the install base or whatever they own doesn’t work.

Maybe because the submission is critical, and there’s this ratio of happy moments to unhappy moments, and bad experiences tend to have a bigger splash.

One of our obsessions that I have, as someone who has implemented dozens of clients, is how do I not drop the ball?

Because from a reputational concern at my stage, it’s not the competition that could kill me.

It’s really messing it up.

So that’s a personal obsession that we have.

Conversely, when you talk to clients, one of the key things that they tell you, for example in the case of credit unions, is there’s the member obsession.

That’s something that is front and center for that category of financial institution.

They’re telling me, “Listen, Andreas, what sometimes my colleagues forget is that one-on-one relationship with a member that they’re working with.

What they forget is the 10 or 100 people that are standing in line to get to sit in front of that desk.”

So what you want is to avoid that line.

How do we actually create the best member experience, but not just for the one person you have in front of you, but for everyone else, and avoid that friction that comes because maybe you’re going to feel like you’re in The White Lotus or a Four Seasons once with that loan officer, but the prior experience dictates what the overall feeling is.

When you think about credit unions, one of the problems that we’ve seen the most is aging customers and difficulty attracting Gen Zers and millennials.

So actually moving down the average from those customers is part of that strategy.

Hey, Tom, any reactions to that?

Mine actually was to something Kelly said, which is around partnership and kind of dealing with the customers.

I always think back, you all may remember this, there was this famous slide 15 years ago that was the disaggregation of a bank.

I think they had taken Wells Fargo, every single line of Wells Fargo business, and then shown a fintech that was going to disrupt that.

Here we are, whatever, 15 years later.

Wells Fargo stock is back to probably near its all-time high after everything they went through.

Still in power, still has an amazing deposit base.

In many ways, the big banks have gotten bigger.

But it always makes me think, what fintech learned, I think, Kelly, to your point on partnership and distribution, is the key is partnership and distribution.

You’re not going to disrupt and take out the banks fully.

You’re not going to have to be up on FIS.

You see this with the cores and the digital banking providers who have really great partnership and platform opportunities.

Now what we see is many of our fintechs want to be on those platforms.

I think in a world of AI, that partnership and that platform approach is even more important because I think it speaks to a stamp of approval and this idea that you need to understand the environment of banks, and they’re not going away.

I love that point you started with on the platforms and partnership.

Melissa, you mentioned it.

A digital banking provider that we’re invested in has that.

I think that’s just such a great thing for the ecosystem that we’re all in.

It’s no longer about banks versus fintechs.

Actually, they all should coexist and win with this idea of, as an industry, we need to be super compliant.

We need to be super thoughtful around AI and we need to be unified.

I think that’s just been a great evolution from that original slide 15 years ago, where this concept that startups were going to take over the core banking system, which we just don’t see happening.

No, I agree with you.

Not going to happen.

On top of that, would we kind of come full circle back to Melissa’s opening remarks around trust.

It’s trust in partnership, trust in how you go about choosing those partners.

FIS’s rich process for vetting those relationships, because ultimately your trust with your clients depends on that, and their trust with their customers or members depends on that.

So it kind of is this chain that runs all the way through.

Without that established trust that we’re all doing the right things, and we’re moving in a common direction, and we’re here to serve ultimately the end customer or member well, the fintech and banking world just doesn’t go around without it.

I love this.

This was a great conversation.

Thank you all.

Yeah.

I’m taking away responsibility.

With distribution comes responsibility.

Somebody has to stand between disaster and the hallucinations.

So that never goes away.

I think there are a lot of lessons too.

Melissa, you said something about someone taking a look at it before the big money leaves.

It reminds me a little bit, like in the loan origination space, about how, yeah, we might do auto-decisioning on lower credit lines, but we’re going to take a look at that before the money leaves the door in the larger-ticket items.

But it’s been a really engaging conversation.

I know you all are super busy.

I don’t want to keep you guys from missing an upcoming call.

So I’m going to go ahead and call this episode to a close, just for the sake of time.

Guys, I really appreciate the stew that we’ve had here in just bringing together all these thoughts from fintech and investor land.

So Kelly Schultz, my co-host with the most, and I both really appreciate Melissa Cullen, president, regional and community banking, FIS, also board member at PayTech Women.

Then we have Andre Clerc, who’s co-founder, co-CEO of Fuse.

Thanks, Andre.

And Tom Davis, general partner at Canapi Ventures.

Just really appreciate all of you guys joining us today.

For all of you out there watching or listening on your Jambox, fintech hustle Jambox podcast of choice, we’ll look forward to seeing you out on the road at Finovate, Money20/20, AFT and some of the other forums.

We’ll see you out there on the road.

Hey there.

If you really dig this episode of the always-unscripted Fintech Hustle podcast, hit the follow button on Apple, Google, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you jam your podcasts.

And hey, tell your fintech friends.

More shop-talk chats are coming in the hall with industry leaders.

Look to see you out there on the road.