Off The Stage at Finovate Spring 2025 // Guests Andy Ivankovich, Maya Mikhailov & Jason Henrichs

Well, hello out there. This is Sam Kilmer, managing director of Cornerstone Advisors, coming to you with a new episode of Fintech Hustle.

We are live.

Well, no, actually live. We’re recording this, but we’re in the hall.

Well, not really in the hall. We’re on a balcony.

We are in San Diego.

None of it’s real. It’s all a fraud. It’s all AI.

I like that.

We are at Finovate, considerably outside of Finovate, not breaking any ground rules of the organization.

We’re in a private area outside of the FinovateSpring 2025 conference.

I’m very fortunate to have three rock stars from the influential halls of fintech who’ve joined us to tell us a little bit about some of their perspectives on the industry.

Let me introduce our guests over here.

We have Andy Ivankovich, who’s the relatively new CEO of Baker Hill.

We have Maya.

Help me with your last name, Maya.

Mikhailov.

Mikhailov.

Thank you.

I know.

So Ivankovich, Mikhailov.

It’s funny, Jason can attest that I actually asked earlier and I practiced it, and then of course I forgot.

That’s pretty much the story of my life.

And then Jason Henrichs, not Jimi Hendrix, but Jason Henrichs, CEO of Alloy Labs, CEO of Savvy AI.

So I’ve got three CEOs.

We’re rocking the free world here on a balcony in San Diego.

Let me just kick off by asking you guys to tell me a little bit about the day in the life of what you do in fintech.

Jason, you want to start off?

Tell me about a day in the life of Jason, not Jimi Hendrix.

Chaos.

Mad chaos.

You know, it starts somewhere around 5:30 with a child.

Oh, not the day in the life, the chaos.

The day in the life of fintech, not the children crawling in bed.

Really wear two hats.

They’re pretty boring.

CEO of Alloy Labs.

We’re a consortium of 94 community banks that work together to drive innovation.

My job is probably chief chaos maker, is what the team would say.

I don’t quell the chaos.

But I spend my day talking to banks, bankers, CEOs, fintech partners, etc.

Then co-host Breaking Banks, which is the largest fintech podcast in the world.

I get to talk to really interesting people.

This has been a bucket-list item for me, to be on Fintech Hustle.

I didn’t pack my hat because Sam said no hats allowed.

He’s the only one who’s allowed to wear a hat.

So there you go.

You got me on multiple fronts there.

We’ll come back to that.

Good stuff.

And Maya, how about a day in the life of Maya?

I was going to say it also starts with morning chaos, child-based morning chaos.

But my day starts pretty early as well.

My team is based out of Chicago, so we normally have a stand-up somewhere around 7 a.m. my time.

I’m based out in the Bay Area.

I spend my day acting partially as a data and AI psychologist to banks, helping them emotionally get comfortable with the fact that, yes, they will need data and, yes, AI is a real thing.

It’s not just a fantasy world of agents running around doing banking functions, but it’s something that they can do today.

So a lot of that is emotional support.

It’s also some data support as well and use-case discovery.

I spend a lot of time with my team figuring out what we can do to better assist our clients in fintech and in banking to help develop solutions that are as practical and reasonable as they are effective.

Well, my day gets started early as well.

I’m with, obviously, Baker Hill, which is a 40-year startup, is what we like to call it, based in Carmel, Indiana.

But I travel around a lot as well.

So visiting our clients throughout the country and then getting back with our teams.

In many cases, we kind of call it herding cats, but it’s coaching a team.

We do a lot of things around commercial lending and small-business lending.

There’s a lot of change and momentum that’s happening in the software space.

So it’s a long day most days.

Good stuff.

I don’t know if you’re picking it up back here, but Maverick and Goose are taking off from Miramar over here.

So cue to our production team to dial up “Danger Zone.”

I think you had a special request too.

I really wanted “Playing with the Boys.”

“Playing with the Boys.”

Okay.

That’s a good point.

That’ll be one of the takeaways from that.

We need to work on that as an industry, don’t we?

Well, I’m just wondering.

Andy, you guys have been having a conference across town here in San Diego, which was convenient for me.

You happen to be in town and I was like, “Hey, would you come on over here? Let’s have a chat.”

Then you guys have been at Finovate for all of, I don’t know, probably a couple hours for all I know.

But I’m curious, for what limited time you’ve been at Finovate, and Andy, this week here at your own conference, any big topics that are popping out in the hallway?

Other than the psychology of AI, that you’re kind of AI whisperer or whatever.

Any other topics or obsessions that you’re hearing people ranting about in the hallway?

Well, one of the things I have to give props to Maya for, and disclosure, we’re investors in Savvy, but speaking at our annual member meeting last week, she didn’t bring AI up at all.

This is the thing that, I’m a few hours in, but already annoyed by, is do not give me “we are AI for X.”

You’re not AI for anything.

If AI is part of your solution, quit talking about it.

Talk about actually how you solve a problem.

I’ve seen nine demos at this point.

I would guess seven of nine talked about AI for X, Y or Z.

Quit it already.

Just stop.

I feel the need to constantly apologize when I even say my company name out loud anymore.

It used to be called machine learning.

It used to be really boring.

It used to be the mom jeans of data.

And now here we are.

I have to say, before you roll your eyes, let me finish.

A lot of what I feel like with regards to AI and banking, I feel like banks love being sold AI.

They love these eager founders such as myself coming up to them saying, “We are the AI for X.”

I don’t think a lot of them are ready to buy AI because it’s more than just, “I need to impress my board.”

It’s a commitment to data.

It’s a commitment to not being a vibes bank, but being a data bank.

And it’s a commitment to a transfer not just of process but of mindset shift.

So I spend quite a lot of my day saying, “Okay, are we ready for this?”

Is this something that you’re really ready to buy?

Are you ready to transform into a data bank?

Can I build on that a sec?

That came up last week when we were talking about vibes-based banking.

That commitment is that AI is the sexy frosting on top, but you’ve got to build a foundation of data and data access.

Let’s face it, our cores don’t make it easy.

They don’t make it cheap to get access to data.

If you’re not committed to doing that, well, one, you’re screwed.

If you’re not committed to data and data access, just fold up, go home with the AI startups.

But the other piece, when you asked last week, if you don’t have access to the data, how are you making decisions?

If you’re doing it based on vibes, which was the joke that came out of it, that doesn’t work in a rapidly changing world.

You need access to the data.

The beauty of AI, machine learning, is it picks trends up faster than the human-based heuristics.

Well, we spent a lot of time talking at our conference about this.

I had a couple of these conversations going.

It’s kind of neat because NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang was fond of saying things like, “AI is not going to take your job, but it’s the person using AI that’s going to take your job.”

Part of the conversations we’ve been looking at inside of banking is more that we’re enabling bankers.

If they’re using AI toolsets to help them, then we’re on the right path.

It’s not about a slick engine, especially for us.

It’s all about lending for us.

In some cases, there are companies out there that would say, “Oh, we can create a decision-based loan within seconds.”

We’re like, “Well, we can do that too.”

We’ve done that.

But yet, how is it going to be adopted?

Because a banker does have to have that relationship with the client to walk them through products and services.

That’s the value that our banks provide.

This idea about AI nonstop, nonstop, nonstop, it’s there.

But we also think it’s going to be part of the business going forward for lending.

It’s going to be almost like what we saw when the web came out in ’99 and really everybody started embracing the first web experiences.

We’re seeing that now, especially in this learning stage.

Yeah.

When you say, Andy, when the web came out, that’s such an apt analogy.

It was a bit of a mindset shift because before it was, you have to go into my branch, you have to talk to a person.

Some bankers couldn’t imagine a world where you’d rather bloop, bloop, bloop on your phone or on your computer and not have that relationship.

So it was almost a mindset shift that was harder than writing some code and making a website.

Yeah, exactly.

I was working in strategy consulting during the first dot-com.

I think of everyone’s strategy.

There’s a real good analogy that you started here, Andy, and I’m going to start stealing that.

I’ll give you credit.

Don’t worry.

But I think about even Walmart, right?

Walmart started Walmart.com as a separate business, as if they gave away all the value they had, which is, hey, we also happen to have a lot of brick and mortar and there’s value in doing both of these and merging them.

Sure, we kept the name, but we gave up every other synergy we had, like the relationship, the ability to go in and say, “Try it on,” be able to return it, things like that.

It’s ironic then that Amazon buys Whole Foods to go from pure dot-com to actually have brick and mortar and how they merge it.

That’s interesting.

I thought it was interesting that we jumped right into talking about data and, are you serious about getting your data put together, whether it’s from core or anything else?

Andy, one thing that I remembered you were talking about earlier this week that kind of had my attention was the idea of a data pond.

I was like, okay, I’ve been hearing about data lakes.

I’ve been hearing about data warehouses.

Then you start down this path of data pond and I’m like, you know, I wanted to learn a little bit more about that.

I kind of dug into it a little bit, but do you want to take a second and maybe kind of give your take on that?

I think, if anything, right, that you guys just brought it up just now, in order to do good AI in the future or be ready and prepared for it, we really are at this generational-level concept of getting your data right and ready.

Data pond for us is a play off of the old data lake structures.

For us, it’s this idea, as soon as I know an individual or an entity, I’m going to pull every data resource that I have either from my core or I’m going to go externally to things like Secretary of State calls for articles of incorporation.

I can mine that information.

Then also as we get better, we talked about machine learning within lending.

It’s been there for at least the last...

Yes.

That’s right.

Part of this is getting our data corrected and stabilized.

There is a better architecture.

I kind of always think about that our LOSs, our cores, are all built on 50-year-old technology.

The read-write databases.

You put a slick UI on top of it and you’re saying that you’re innovative, when really it’s lipstick on a pig.

Yeah.

Reaction?

I was going to say, Andy, you bring up a great concept, which is that I think there is this prerequisite paralysis that’s happening in data with banking, where they think they need a lake.

But actually they think they need an ocean, when really sometimes a pond will do.

A pond is better than what you have right now, which is vibes.

A pond is a place to start.

Yes.

Then you can build on the learnings.

I think that sometimes what we’re seeing is they get into this mentality of, we have to do a two-year data architecture project just to use our data.

Again, it goes back to the question, then what are you doing now?

Let’s start smaller.

Let’s start practical.

Small learning baby steps.

I think that’s just the way to go.

Any reaction to that, Jason?

Well, I mean, I think anytime you’re looking at doing something innovative, new, it comes down to scope.

As banks, we like to treat everything as a core conversion, which is, let’s plan this puppy out for 36 months with a waterfall down to, you know, plus or minus four days, what’s going to be happening?

I think one of the key things, what AI changes even more than machine learning, is you don’t need structured databases in the same way that you used to.

That opens up a whole new world of possibility that, to Maya’s point, you can start small and do small things and do them well and learn and expand.

But you also need access.

You need a pool, a lake, a pond.

You pick it.

You don’t need to build the ocean to start.

Pick a piece.

Get access to it.

You don’t have to worry about structure and architecture in the same way that you used to to get something useful out of it.

Interesting.

Since I’m a consultant, I’ll go negative.

Here we go.

I’ll allow you all to go negative.

What’s something, I mean other than vibes, what is it?

Vibification?

That’ll be the Shevlin hashtag.

Ron Shevlin.

But you call it vibes banking or vibe banking.

Other than that, what is something that you all see going on in the business right now that you think is either broken, screaming for an entrepreneur to fix it?

Just something that you wish was better or that could be fixed up.

Anybody want to take a stab at that?

More often than not, where we’re finding the problem isn’t the technology, it’s the people and processes on the other side.

We spent a lot of time talking about this last week in Nashville, but we hear it again and again.

I think this is something the entrepreneurs that are going to win will appreciate.

It isn’t about their technology and their application.

It’s figuring out how do we actually help the organization adapt and rewrite some of the people and processes associated with it?

Because that’s where the challenge is going to be.

Yeah, absolutely.

Listen, I’ve been in the AI game since 2014, and I can tell you sometimes you just need a radio button.

You don’t need AI.

You just need to examine your process and think to yourself, is it really automation that I’m looking for right now?

Or is it one less step?

Why are we doing this step?

Why is the data over there instead of over here?

Well, that’s interesting.

Anything else on that, Andy?

I actually was going to take a non-technology spin on it.

Because you said about the business and what we’re looking at.

Today, the Fed basically decided no rate cut, which, if we did, we know there’s so much of this pent-up demand for lending that would breeze through our banks.

We’ve been praying for that change, right?

There’s not a lot of...

I don’t know.

We talked about we don’t want to get political.

Is it broken in the process?

I just wish for lower rates right now.

I’m going to take the counterargument that in the banks that I’m talking to, the problem isn’t the interest rate.

That may help.

But it is the economic uncertainty.

They’ve tightened the credit box so much.

You can loosen the interest rate.

They’re still worried.

I’m hearing from banks that 19 of our top 20 CRE deals are stalled because these big commercial buyers are like, not right now.

Now is not the time.

We’re seeing it on the small-business front where one of our banks was telling me the story of a woman who owns a set of boutiques.

Guess what?

She just placed her orders for Christmas.

A lot of cash went out the door, except all of her inventory is in a port that she can’t afford to pay the tariff on to get the inventory.

The bank doesn’t know, do I give her a loan?

Because is she going to be able to sell at the price she has to raise it to, to cover the increased cost?

They’re stuck.

You lower the interest rate, they’re like, we’re just not sure if that’s a good loan.

They’re faced with uncertainty.

But it’s because there’s uncertainty that you need to arm your team with better tools.

Yes.

In times of uncertainty, we’ve often gone back to spreadsheets.

We’ve often gone back to our decision trees and our processes on lending that are codified in some sort of big document that no one’s ever reading.

It’s this time that you have to ask yourself, look, I have a team that wants to help.

I have an organization that wants to keep up.

But am I giving them the tools to keep up?

I will say this also.

I think one of the biggest problems in banking is some bankers, not all, some bankers hope they can retire before all of this hits them.

They’re looking at this tsunami of technology coming at them and of change, but really people change too, and they’re saying, gosh, I hope this is going to be someone else’s problem and I can just kind of coast by.

When you then add uncertainty to the scenario, the time for coasting by has actually passed.

Right.

Yeah.

You want to add to that?

Yeah.

I was just thinking Tom Cruise has Mission: Impossible coming out, and it’s all about AI and the Entity coming to kill us and take us out.

So that’s always kind of good things in the cover.

I got it.

On another note, I know I didn’t build it because nobody’s knocked on my door and asked me if I was Sarah Connor.

Yeah.

So I know I am not responsible for what happens next.

Well, Maya, to your point, on the digital-transformation front, when that was a five- to seven-year-from-now problem, we saw a lot of very senior, I’ll just call it old white men wearing khaki pants who like to golf.

No, they’re not khaki.

Military moderate gold.

As JP would say, they follow the 3-6-3 rule of lending.

Do you know what that is?

You take deposits in at three, you lend at six, you hit the golf course by three.

Exactly.

So on digital transformation, with the current uncertainty and AI and the speed with which it’s being adopted, guess what?

You didn’t retire soon enough.

It’s now your problem.

It’s your problem.

It is.

And you have a team.

What’s really amazing, though, in so many banks that I talk to, you go kind of one level deeper in the bank and they have a really enthusiastic team.

A team that’s looking at their future with the bank and saying, “I want to use these tools.”

I’m using them at home.

I’m using them with my family and my kids to plan things.

I’m using them every single day.

I want to bring this knowledge and information.

So I will say that you have eager folks that want this change.

Now it’s a question of how are they going to do it and everyone getting comfortable with the change happening.

Okay, so we went negative.

That was fun.

Of course.

Please do.

So on a positive note, not to throw all of the banks under the boat, or I was going to say under the golf cart.

A year ago at our member meeting, there was a lot of talk about AI and what-ifs.

I don’t know if you felt this change too.

This time, even the CEOs of smaller banks or even the big banks that are more conservative, they weren’t talking about what-ifs.

They were talking about the things they are actively doing.

Some are in baby steps.

Some are in full-fledged, here’s how we’re embracing it organization-wide.

But it’s happening.

And so if you’re not one of those...

No, I was floored when there was a banker in Nashville and she has a sub-$10 billion AUM bank.

The thing she was talking about is they found hundreds, hundreds, of these tiny little use cases that were helping their team.

She’s not doing this with an army of individuals.

They just said, what are the problems we want to tackle?

How do we tackle them?

Sometimes AI.

Sometimes spreadsheet.

Sometimes better process.

But just tackling problems.

That’s the way to approach this.

Yeah.

We did a couple of polling and we found about 40% of the banks that attended our conference, it’s very interesting, they’re using Copilot because that’s an easy check-the-box start to engage with a lot of their folks in an enterprise-wide way.

I think it’s like 30 bucks or 40 bucks a month for employees.

So we’re seeing them kind of get those use cases out there.

Even CFOs using it to create spreadsheets.

Then getting more comfortable with the ideas of how they’re going to go next.

Then as I hear vendors coming to them, at least they’re a little bit more on the cusp of learning.

Anything else you guys see going on in the business right now that really has you jazzed or positive?

I went negative, things that are broken.

What gives you a lot of optimism right now?

Anybody want to take a shot at that?

Are we all just pessimistic out here in the sunshine?

The people I meet give me optimism.

The people I’m meeting at these banks every single day, their desire to improve, their desire to help service our customers better, their desire to keep up with the fintechs and sometimes partner with them.

That’s what’s giving me a ton of optimism, is their desire to implement these changes and their desire to move from just strictly being a vibe bank to being a vibe-plus-data bank.

Yeah.

I was just saying that we see it in the space for LOSs.

This is a good time that a lot of banks are taking a step back and trying to get much more efficient, learn how to lend better, lend faster.

So now there’s a ton of evaluation criteria.

You’re probably seeing RFPs coming into the consulting firm as well.

So we do see momentum, at least people buying and wanting to upgrade or switch out LOSs right now.

Seeing a bifurcation in the banks and credit unions, that for some the uncertainty has actually been the motivation they needed.

They’re like, the house is on fire, the boat’s on fire, we’ve got to start moving and doing it.

That’s great.

Because in an up market it’s easy to be, I don’t want to say lazy, but to ride the wave.

The rising tide is lifting all boats.

Now they’re realizing the tide’s coming out.

If I’m not going to be stranded, torturing this analogy, they need to do something different.

Now unfortunately, the flip side of that is there are a number of banks that are taking the tried-and-true, I’m just going to try and wait it out.

I don’t think waiting it out is going to work.

It’s too late if you’re going to wait out digital transformation.

It’s probably too late if you think you’re going to wait this out and just sell the bank at some point.

But that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

We need a little Darwinian.

The best will survive and thrive, and the others need to be culled.

Yeah.

Given the work that you’re doing with all the venture work and investor work there, I think one of the things that I’ve seen that’s left me pretty positive, especially I think since last year, because last year seemed like a pretty down year in terms of fintech and new fintech investments or investors going into the space.

Two things that I see.

A lot more interest out there in investing in the space.

And also, let’s say maybe five years ago, I probably had a little bit of a narrative or a stereotype around private equity firms and what their impact was.

But actually I’ve seen several players in the market, Baker Hill would be one of them, Abrigo would be one of them.

There’s been private equity behind MeridianLink.

What I find interesting about some of that work is, not only because I’ve seen some of this in our diligence work, what I love about it is historically I tended to think of that money as going into maybe, not extract rent, but to extract value.

Now I’m seeing way more money going in.

Full disclosure, we’re private equity-backed too at Cornerstone Advisors.

I just mean much more growth-oriented.

Like, no, no, no, we’re going to invest in you so you can build new product, go get new clients, as opposed to, “Hey, can we basically juice this thing and raise prices and get some short-term squeeze out of it?”

To me, that’s pretty positive.

There’s money coming from lots of different places and the expectations aren’t just quick wins, but maybe longer term.

How do we help people?

Stuff that takes risk and time to marinate.

That makes me feel pretty good.

Thanks for sharing those perspectives, guys.

As my wife’s uncle has been known to say a lot, is there anything else you want to talk about before I leave?

So let me ask you what my wife’s uncle would ask.

Is there anything else you think we should be talking about on Fintech Hustle that we haven’t talked about yet out here on this beautiful balcony in the sunshine?

Anything else going on in your lives?

Yeah.

Well, you know, we’re out here in San Diego, and so my wife and I took a little break to go to the San Diego Zoo.

So I did bring up hats, right?

I know that.

Yeah.

But it’s the chubby unicorns, right, need to be saved as well, which are the rhinoceroses at the San Diego Zoo.

So it’s a lot of fun to just kind of take a step back.

Even though in our tech world day to day, it’s nice to kind of hang out in San Diego on this beautiful day.

How about you guys?

Anything else come to mind before we wrap it up?

Well, as long as we’re talking personal in San Diego, it’s going to be too late by the time they see this, but the next conference in San Diego, my favorite run in the world is Torrey Pines.

I will be taking an Uber at dawn to go run at Torrey Pines.

Maya, you up for that?

How about I chase you with a golf cart so you have a reason to be running?

I’ve been to Torrey Pines once before with my former bank, with Synchrony, and it was glorious.

I am not a golfer.

My golfing involves a windmill and the 18th hole where it goes back to the mini putt.

But it was really a stunning, special place.

I can totally see why you love it.

Did you know that it’s named after a pine tree?

A Torrey pine is a specific pine tree.

It’s a beautiful tree on the property, and it is one of the only climatic places that it can grow, which is why Torrey Pines is next to the Torrey Pines State Reserve.

The smell of the Torrey pines, which is kind of like a dwarf pine, think of it like the Joshua tree of pine trees, but it takes a very special climate for it to grow.

That is one of the only places in the world right there on the sandstone bluffs.

Stress that we are not sponsored by the Torrey Pines Resort and Hotel and Golf Club.

However, hashtag contact me and these gentlemen if you want to.

We’re brand fans.

I am the person who, when chaperoning the kindergarten field trip to the zoo, was called out by a parent because I corrected the kindergarteners.

“That is a bison, not a buffalo.”

That is true.

I learned that when I went to Yosemite.

Thank you.

It was, I went to Yose...

Oh, sorry.

Was it Yosemite or Yellowstone?

Now I’m getting those two confused.

Yellowstone.

It was Yellowstone.

It was in Montana.

All this time I thought, you know, buffalo wings.

And they’re like, “No, it’s bison.”

In America, it’s a bison.

That was a really fun fact.

Another fun fact about Torrey Pines.

You want to get on the...

I’m sorry, but you guys did not give me the mic soon enough on the Torrey Pines before he went off the balcony there.

We went there for vacation many years ago, and there’s like a Torrey Pines Avenue that goes off on Torrey Pines Boulevard connected to Torrey Pines Street.

For whatever reason, my kids just got a big hoot out of that.

So now whenever I say, “Hey, I’m going out west. I’m probably going to go to Torrey Pines,” they start laughing because it’s sort of like the Monty Python Queen Victoria sketch, where it’s Queen Victoria on the left followed by Queen Victoria.

It’s like a race of Queen Victorias or whatever.

Or the Spam sketch.

Have you got a street that doesn’t have Torrey Pines in it?

And by the way, Jason, you said that I’m the only person that has to wear a hat.

I’m sorry.

That’s just false.

That’s just a lie.

It’s an industry lie and we’re going to solve it right now.

You guys all get these premium, premium, premium hats.

Also, by the way, all the ’90s vibes again.

We’re bucket.

That’s right.

They’ve not been sponsored or endorsed yet by LL Cool J or the Oasis reunion tour, but we’re working on it.

I’ve got my contract negotiators.

Where’s Fred Durst?

Liam Gallagher is going to be coming up the stairs.

Also, here’s a double-album coaster set.

One of the folks that got one of these one time called me and said that they didn’t have a record player.

Don’t try to play those.

Those will ruin your needle.

They’re meant for your bourbon or something else.

They’re a coaster.

Play it.

I, in fact, collect records.

Do you?

I would have been tempted to play it.

Okay.

Favorite recent record?

I would say it is the Queen collectible of “Fat Bottomed Girls” with original poster art.

That is a recent collectible that I got.

I’ve got to say, I did not see that one coming.

I’m in the process of...

Well, I was about to say Queen as well because I was cleaning out a bunch of my stuff in my parents’ house as part of the life transition zone and found all of my sister’s and my original LPs, including Queen, Air Supply.

What’s his name?

The two brothers that my sister had the crush on.

The younger brother, not the older.

Well, we were doing classic rock the last couple of days.

We’ve got bankers that grew up in the ’80s and ’90s, so Jon Bon Jovi was a huge hit this past week.

Jon Bon Jovi.

Jon Bon Jovi.

I’ll close it up on a little bit of a, let’s just call it a weird one.

There’s a band that I’ve been following for the last several years called Lord Huron.

They’re based in L.A., but they’re originally from Michigan, hence the name Huron.

The lead singer and songwriter is also a, he was a painting artist, not musical artist, but painting.

So all of their liner notes, album artwork, everything, it just has a real design sense to it.

I just love it when people spend a lot of time thinking about how something feels and looks and everything.

So if you ever get a chance to check out a newer band, not a new band, but a newer band.

But I want to thank all of you for joining me on this episode of Fintech Hustle.

Maya Mikhailov, did I get it right this time?

No.

Oh God.

That’s a no, by the way.

And she’s being polite.

Jason Henrichs, not Jimi, but Jason Henrichs, and Andy Ivankovich from Baker Hill.

Thank you for joining us.

Appreciate it.

And we’ll see you out on the next episode of Fintech Hustle.

This is us from San Diego, seeing you out on the road.

Cheers.